stantheman
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Noted that the 34 now seems to be all 426 to 437 , and the 22 all the London centre doors
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Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)
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TheEastCoaster
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The 70 maybe, the 71 looks more busier to be honest, the X40 is fine on Decker's, if they didn't have the 70/71 interchange, then I could say the 70 could be a single decker route.
computerSaysNo
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I've been trying to work out how much faster the X4 is between Edinburgh (Waterloo Place) and Prestonpans (Hawthorn Road), than the 124.
Maybe I'm doing my sums wrong but for around 7pm I'm getting that the 124 takes 40 minutes (depart 1925, arrive 2005) and the X4 is only 1 (one) minute faster at 39 minutes (depart 1904, arrive 1943)?
I guess the longer distance of going via the A1 isn't offset by being able to sit at 50mph as much as I thought it was, at that time of day versus the stop-start of going through Musselburgh. To me it then raises the question of why run the X4 at those times of day when running via Musselburgh takes the same amount of time?
Maybe I'm doing my sums wrong but for around 7pm I'm getting that the 124 takes 40 minutes (depart 1925, arrive 2005) and the X4 is only 1 (one) minute faster at 39 minutes (depart 1904, arrive 1943)?
I guess the longer distance of going via the A1 isn't offset by being able to sit at 50mph as much as I thought it was, at that time of day versus the stop-start of going through Musselburgh. To me it then raises the question of why run the X4 at those times of day when running via Musselburgh takes the same amount of time?
FlybeDash8Q400
Established Member
I would go back and check your sums. I have the X4 generally as 10 minutes faster. That’s before you even consider the traffic in Musselburgh which often causes delays. There are some examples where it is closer on the timetable, but in reality I doubt it actually is.
I think the X4 has longer time allowance to get out of town. For what reason I’m not sure.
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You’re right the 71 is the busier than the 70 but even at that E200s could cope with no problem at all.
Lothianbus703
Member
Both the 70 and 71 would be fine with short single deckers and the busier journeys, like most services passengers would have to utilise the standing area. A 9.4m E200MMC like 191/192 would work for this, but most journeys would actually be better running with a smaller bus such as a Optare solo. If the 70 was run seperately to the 71 then a even smaller bus such as a Mercedes Benz mellor strata would be appropriate.
I have attached a image of a Strata
FlybeDash8Q400
Established Member
Too small for the 71 in my opinion.
Eclipse2’s are fine for what is needed for the 70 and 71. The Hybrids are a total waste on them though.
Lothianbus703
Member
The double deckers used are the same B5LH chassis as the 7900's, only difference being a 7900 has one less floor, is integral and is 0.5m longer, the deckers being 11.5m.
Both are limited to around 40mph aswell so I dont see what the waste would be compared to a decker.
You are correct though by suggesting Eclipse 2's, they are the most realistic option providing all the 7900s are in use at city.
Resuwen
Member
Feel sorry for passengers on routes who’ve been used to the benefits of dual doors having that taken away from them
ScotRail158725
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They wont care at all as long as the bus shows up
LBObserver
Member
Benefits?
If you are referring to the ex-London buses I say good riddance. I live on the 33 route (and others thankfully) and let them pass if another bus is coming.
Too few seats downstairs (I believe these double door buses are already shorter than Lothian's standard single door double deckers), too cold in chilly weather, often crowded with students and others with big bags/cases/rucksacks hovering around the exit door despite not getting off. I feel sorry for those on the 22 route getting them now, but perhaps that route is better suited to them. The sooner they are gone though the better. That will be a benefit!
A couple of my older relatives don't like the longer XLBs either as they say the exit doesn't lower enough compared to the front door. They would rather let them pass and wait for a single door if they have the option. They have not always had a positive response from drivers if they ask to leave by the front door of an XLB.
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stevenedin
Established Member
1141-1153 are up there as buses I like the most in Edinburgh. I guess everyone has a different opinion. I like the quirkiness of them with them all having their own unique character and them feeling a bit nostalgic but I do get the lack of seat issue.
That's 847 withdrawn now as of yesterday it moved to Marine. Only 843, 848, 849 & 850 left at Lothian Country plus 934, 935 and 936.
Does anyone know of 841-850 are being sold or are they just staying in reserve?
498, 499 and 500 appear to be getting prepped now. 499 strangely visited Grange Road in Pumpherston not sure if it was the E&M Horsburgh depot or not from what I can see.
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Every bus with its luggage racks removed has visited the VOSA enforcement centre in Pumpherston. It's just a brief inspection from what I've interpreted. The 441-465 group all recently visited as well but the reason is less clear.
499 is finished and it will be out in due course. 498 is probably just going to need its repaint and inspection with refurbishment being completed first.
stevenedin
Established Member
Thanks for the info
Resuwen
Member
848 seems to have been withdrawn today - a bit of x28 action this morning then into Marine this afternoon
FlybeDash8Q400
Established Member
460 has replaced it. Straight swap.
overthewater
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It all depends on what is in the council contracts and its neither company nor user who get to decide that.
Lothianbus703
Member
I dont recall it ever being stated in either contract the type of bus to be used.
JKP
Member
I am sure that a minimum capacity would have specified as this is standard with Council contracts, but not vehicle type.
stevenedin
Established Member
846 seems to be back at Livingston depot not sure if just a visit.
LBObserver
Member
I remember reading this at the time and intended to add a connected response but forgot then couldn't find the comment until now.
When the Airlink 100 received the 53/04 reg Tridents (657-666 at the time), the V/W Tridents (539-549) were transferred to Longstone and received limited branding for the 35. It basically comprised a lilac sort of colour 35 between the decks at the front and route points below the upper deck windows. This would have put it around Summer 2004 but not sure if this was later than the airport service extension.
For me it was handy for the South Gyle estate and shopping centre as well as the occasional airport trip, also as a useful direct link to work at that time in the other direction.
The 53/04 Tridents were later cascaded to Longstone and most, if I recall correctly, received the same branding. This would have been after the 57 plate second batch of Scanias arrived for the Airlink. When the 2010 Volvo B9s 937-950 appeared for Airlink the Scanias replaced the Tridents but didn't have any branding. They were normally on the 35 but sometimes popped up on rush hour 25 or 33. They stayed until Skylink 300 replaced the 35 (around 2016?) along with premium fares.
I was shortly before then on a Scania heading to the airport. At Parkhead driver changeover, the replacement driver announced that the bus was going directly to the airport and anyone wanting off before there should transfer to the 35 behind, which had been running in tandem with mine. There were only three of us going to the airport left on this bus (around 4pm weekday) and probably the only time I will ever be on a bus down the city bypass from Calder to Gogar, where the Scania was able to show off its power, albeit briefly given the 50mph limit (anyone know what a Scania could do in theory?)
stevenedin
Established Member
I seem to remember the Scanias being off the road for 1-2 years stored at Seafield before they decided to bring them back.
LBObserver
Member
I commented above on the 35 running to Edinburgh Airport.
I remember as a boy when my dad worked at the airport travelling by bus there, usually on a Sunday, to watch the planes arriving and leaving, back when they had an open terrace for that sort of thing.
Back when the current facility opened in 1977, LRT used M reg Duple bodied Bedford coaches, usually 214-8 (NSG-M) but sometimes similar 204-8 (NFS-M) when they weren't being used for tours. They departed from the old ticket and tours office at the top of Waverley Bridge, closed when Waverley Market shopping centre was built.
The service (unnumbered) ran up Market Street then down The Mound and left on to Princes Street. I usually boarded at Haymarket Station and recall drivers with white covers on their caps, presumably the same drivers ran the tours?
The coaches ran a 30 minute frequency I believe, reduced to hourly at the weekend. They were later replaced by a number of JSC-E Atlanteans converted with interior seat changes I think, as well as white with black livery. I can't remember all the fleet numbers, pretty sure 874-6 were among those but also 869 which still exists.
The first new buses were Atlanteans 660-5 (GSC-X) for then service 100. These were the final Atlanteans, single door, at the end of dual door batch 621-659.
Later on, Leyland Olympians 366-71 (F-WSC) came along with Volvo Olympians 431-3 (P-KSX) being the final white/black coach livery style. Did any or all of those Olympians receive the 'Airline' livery, I can't remember now? I also can't remember when more frequent journeys were introduced.
When Dennis Tridents 539-545 (V-ESC) and 546-9 (W-RSG) came along they were in allover livery and I think at an increased frequency.
Subsequent replacements were 53/04 registered 657-666, non-standard Scanias 995-999 (06) and 986-995 (57 plates). Volvo B9 937-950 were a return to what was then the standard vehicle type. 426-437 were next in 2015 with a new pale blue with a golden aeroplane (I assume that is what it was meant to be, not my favourite scheme) and the current XLBs in 2019. I wasn't sure about the dark blue livery but it's much better than the addition of red and white introduced to some buses when Bright Bus started.
This of course was not the first competition on the route with tour operator Guide Friday having begun open top tours (in the late 80's/early 90's? confirmation please).
It was then that LRT decided open top tours were possible in Edinburgh and converted Atlanteans 39-45 (BFS-L) for the Edinburgh Classic Tour. Shortly after Guide Friday brought in other older Atlanteans for an airport service. Presumably there was a gentleman's agreement later (the Neil Renilson years?) after LRT had started tours in Oxford and York with further converted Atlanteans but the whole tours saga will be for others who have more knowledge on that subject.
Prior to 1977 I remember travelling to the old terminal on Turnhouse Road by bus with my dad. It would have been on one of the Tiger Cubs of the same batch as restored bus 86. The service number was 25 which I think ran from the West End. After 1977 LRT ran a split of 31 at Maybury, I think every hour, to Turnhouse rather than East Craigs. It was certainly still operating in early 1982 when we took a relative's cat on the bus to Air Cargo at Turnhouse for it to take a flight abroad to its owner's new home.
I remember as a boy when my dad worked at the airport travelling by bus there, usually on a Sunday, to watch the planes arriving and leaving, back when they had an open terrace for that sort of thing.
Back when the current facility opened in 1977, LRT used M reg Duple bodied Bedford coaches, usually 214-8 (NSG-M) but sometimes similar 204-8 (NFS-M) when they weren't being used for tours. They departed from the old ticket and tours office at the top of Waverley Bridge, closed when Waverley Market shopping centre was built.
The service (unnumbered) ran up Market Street then down The Mound and left on to Princes Street. I usually boarded at Haymarket Station and recall drivers with white covers on their caps, presumably the same drivers ran the tours?
The coaches ran a 30 minute frequency I believe, reduced to hourly at the weekend. They were later replaced by a number of JSC-E Atlanteans converted with interior seat changes I think, as well as white with black livery. I can't remember all the fleet numbers, pretty sure 874-6 were among those but also 869 which still exists.
The first new buses were Atlanteans 660-5 (GSC-X) for then service 100. These were the final Atlanteans, single door, at the end of dual door batch 621-659.
Later on, Leyland Olympians 366-71 (F-WSC) came along with Volvo Olympians 431-3 (P-KSX) being the final white/black coach livery style. Did any or all of those Olympians receive the 'Airline' livery, I can't remember now? I also can't remember when more frequent journeys were introduced.
When Dennis Tridents 539-545 (V-ESC) and 546-9 (W-RSG) came along they were in allover livery and I think at an increased frequency.
Subsequent replacements were 53/04 registered 657-666, non-standard Scanias 995-999 (06) and 986-995 (57 plates). Volvo B9 937-950 were a return to what was then the standard vehicle type. 426-437 were next in 2015 with a new pale blue with a golden aeroplane (I assume that is what it was meant to be, not my favourite scheme) and the current XLBs in 2019. I wasn't sure about the dark blue livery but it's much better than the addition of red and white introduced to some buses when Bright Bus started.
This of course was not the first competition on the route with tour operator Guide Friday having begun open top tours (in the late 80's/early 90's? confirmation please).
It was then that LRT decided open top tours were possible in Edinburgh and converted Atlanteans 39-45 (BFS-L) for the Edinburgh Classic Tour. Shortly after Guide Friday brought in other older Atlanteans for an airport service. Presumably there was a gentleman's agreement later (the Neil Renilson years?) after LRT had started tours in Oxford and York with further converted Atlanteans but the whole tours saga will be for others who have more knowledge on that subject.
Prior to 1977 I remember travelling to the old terminal on Turnhouse Road by bus with my dad. It would have been on one of the Tiger Cubs of the same batch as restored bus 86. The service number was 25 which I think ran from the West End. After 1977 LRT ran a split of 31 at Maybury, I think every hour, to Turnhouse rather than East Craigs. It was certainly still operating in early 1982 when we took a relative's cat on the bus to Air Cargo at Turnhouse for it to take a flight abroad to its owner's new home.
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stevenedin
Established Member
There was also 496-510 in 2017 which replaced 426-437 which went onto Skylink duties.
LBObserver
Member
thanks!
366-371 received the Airline livery in 1995. A Ray Stenning commission, if I remember correctly. It was also around then that the 100 became the 100 and 200, the 100 serving the bus station then Waverley Bridge on journeys from the Airport with the 200 running to Waverley Bridge direct. This was shortlived and from March 1997 the bus station diversion was withdrawn with the 200 service number dropped.
The JSC-E Atlanteans upgraded for the Airport service were 860-862, 869 and 874-876.
Guide Friday's Airbus Express started on 31st October 1989, ending exactly ten years later. This was in retaliation for LRT starting up the Edinburgh Classic Tour that summer, itself a response to Guide Friday launching its Edinburgh Tour after an approach to LRT to work together was turned down flat by LRT management on the grounds that there was no market for open top tours in Edinburgh - a "Decca Records" moment.
In turn LRT then started up its Oxford, York and, later, Cambridge Classic Tours in partnership with local operators in each city though after the partner operator in York (Jorvik Tours) went under during 1992, LRT then returned there the following year on its own and later gained a number of school contracts in the York area.
The gentleman's agreement mentioned by @LBObserver was in 1999, after Neil Renilson succeeded Charles Evans as LRT's MD and Chief Executive. The upshot of that was LRT closing its Cambridge and York operations with Guide Friday withdrawing the Airbus Express. The York operation briefly passed to the shortlived Yorkbus, set up by a former LRT manager who had left (or was cast aside by the new order) which had hoped to continue running the schools contracts there, but after losing the lot on retendering, decided to start local services instead. It went bust after a month.
The Oxford Classic Tour, meanwhile, soldiered on for a few more years before ending in 2002.
That's pretty much everything in a nutshell.
(For younger readers, the Decca Records reference refers to a certain band from Liverpool, the Beatles, who were rejected by that record label in 1962 as it saw no future for guitar-based bands.
So they signed to Apple Records instead and the rest is history - a bit like LRT's "no market for open-top tours" declaration and then having to eat its words.)
LBObserver
Member
Many thanks for the clarification.
I had forgotten about the 200 and the bus station detour.
It would be good to see any of these buses that are still around being restored in the relevant livery they carried (Airline/Airlink) over the last 30 years, or even a similar vehicle from the appropriate year.
You're very welcome.
ScotRail158725
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Trident 664 was restord in its Airlink livery in 2019, residing at the SVBM now. Only Lothian vehicle in a heritage airlink livery i believe
LBObserver
Member
Good to know, thanks. Does it get on public display at open days do you know?