The current route from Olympia to Reading, curving just south of Willesden Junction, is only 0.6 miles longer than the lost route.
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Kensington (Olympia) post-HS2
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RailUK Forums
True, but uses some very slow running line, whereas the lost route was a short and simple turn off the main line.
Pardon my ignorance — what was severed where, and when? Struggling to picture it from when I last used a VXC service over that line 20+ years ago! I remember coming down Acton(?) bank and waiting for ages for the route to the down main to clear, but that’s about it! TIA ~ Jim.
There was once a direct connection from the Great Western Main Line to the West London Line, before North Pole Depot was built. It was removed in the early 1990s. As you say, in VXC days, everything went via Acton Bank.
And it was directly off the Main lines, which worked ok when there were no Heathrow Expresses or half hourly services to Wales, the West country etc. But simply couldn’t work now.
Again -- interesting. Thanks for sharing.
Brent Goose
Member
Olympia is in the final stages of substantial redevelopment including hotels, restaurants and more than one music venue
Also many flat junction conflicts with other services through the Acton - Willesden labyrinth. To get from the mains you'd cross EL, Mildmay, future West London Orbital, interact with cross London freight, etc. The old route had a fairly slow flat double junction with the GW mains. Up trains turning right towards Kensington Olympia conflicted with down main expresses and took a while to clear the junction. Not a great configuration on such a fast, intensively used corridor.
Hotels and Restaurants aren't really going to drive substantial peak traffic though. The music venues might, but depends on capacity. It suggests to me that the idea of effectively splitting the service at Kensington wouldn't be good for transport in the area.
Let's not get blinded by the history of the place, these days Olympia is a stop on the Willesden to Clapham branch of the overground that serves its local area. Sometimes there's a fairly pointless District line service.
There's really nothing going on in the area that demands it be more than that.
There's really nothing going on in the area that demands it be more than that.
87015
Established Member
The Olympia redevelopment is big enough that it is funding additional WLL passenger services, its quite something going on.
Class15
Established Member
How are these going to fit?
Brent Goose
Member
Not much short of £1bn
BranstonJnc
Member
I seem to recall the last plan was to run a six-minutely service between Clapham and Shepherds Bush. That would probably be a half-hourly "Cross London" from Croydon-ish to Watford-ish, and then the other services would all be London Overground, so there'd be a gap for a half-hourly Richmond to Stratford for that whole section to be every 6 minutes from Willesden to Stratford at high peak. That 10tph runs now, and with a couple of minor adjustments, you could incorporate a third and forth Richmond per hour into Willesden which then goes onto the Kensal Green turnback, and allows a half-hourly slot for freight and other such traffic between Camden Road and Lea Jn.
You'd have a bit of a struggle to accommodate that at Clapham, unless some LO trains run off Platform 17, and again a bit of a tweak which would mean some trains arrive a couple of minutes later and the like. But overall, it's possible. There'd also be a bit of space somewhere for some freight between Mitre Bridge and Longhedge / Latchmere.
A very standardised six-minutely (or very close) service from Clapham to Shepherds Bush is exactly what is needed. How you deal with the Southern service is totally different gravy. In theory, post-EWR, you would probably have a very strong business case to extend that all-day to Bletchley every 30 minutes, using the back platform, and that would leave Platform 2 / 2A at MK free for EWR trains coming onto the slows at Denbigh Hall.
Depending on devolution, you may be able to find a sensible extension of that service south of Croydon. If you assume Caterham, Coulsdon Town and Tattenham Corner are out (in case they end up being Overground), and if you assume Reigate post-CARS is a Thameslink service (replacing Rainham), and that stuff via Redhill and Horley needs to be big, 12 car 700s, then you end up at extending them beyond Redhill to Tonbridge. That, restoring a half-hourly service on the Redhill - Tonbridge, bringing back Tonbridge - Croydon direct connections, and even adding in the option of a few extra stations at the 'busy' places like Balham, would make it a very good service.
You'd have a bit of a struggle to accommodate that at Clapham, unless some LO trains run off Platform 17, and again a bit of a tweak which would mean some trains arrive a couple of minutes later and the like. But overall, it's possible. There'd also be a bit of space somewhere for some freight between Mitre Bridge and Longhedge / Latchmere.
A very standardised six-minutely (or very close) service from Clapham to Shepherds Bush is exactly what is needed. How you deal with the Southern service is totally different gravy. In theory, post-EWR, you would probably have a very strong business case to extend that all-day to Bletchley every 30 minutes, using the back platform, and that would leave Platform 2 / 2A at MK free for EWR trains coming onto the slows at Denbigh Hall.
Depending on devolution, you may be able to find a sensible extension of that service south of Croydon. If you assume Caterham, Coulsdon Town and Tattenham Corner are out (in case they end up being Overground), and if you assume Reigate post-CARS is a Thameslink service (replacing Rainham), and that stuff via Redhill and Horley needs to be big, 12 car 700s, then you end up at extending them beyond Redhill to Tonbridge. That, restoring a half-hourly service on the Redhill - Tonbridge, bringing back Tonbridge - Croydon direct connections, and even adding in the option of a few extra stations at the 'busy' places like Balham, would make it a very good service.
Is that in writing somewhere?
BranstonJnc
Member
That wasn’t a plan - its a forecast of demand from 10 years ago, and potential options to satisfy it. 10tph has never been formally planned. And won’t be.
BranstonJnc
Member
So there is no demand of any sort for that many services now? You can never get on a WLL train, usually.
Class15
Established Member
Exactly. There absolutely should, and has to be, 10tph. In the age of Westfield it is absolutely crucial.
BranstonJnc
Member
And one has to assume that if someone is building a new set of platforms / a diversion round towards Acton Wells over Wormwood Scrubs to get onto the NLL with a station at Old Oak, that need will actually accelerate.
Really? Why can’t passengers get on? Is it Schrödingers train?
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Class15
Established Member
Because the train is too crowded!
(Speaking from experience of southbound trains in the morning peak at Imperial Wharf)
So passengers can’t usually get on because passengers have got on?
Class15
Established Member
Okay, I see your point, but after Shepherd’s Bush they are ridiculously overcrowded. ‘Never’ by the OP is a little of an exaggeration!
Railwaysceptic
Established Member
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- 6 Nov 2017
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- 1,580
Define "ridiculously overcrowded" and at what times of day. At peak periods in London, crowded trains are the norm.
As the West London Line is a crucial freight route, paths must be set aside for those trains when planning any new passenger services along that very busy corridor. It may well turn out that longer passenger trains with selective door operation will be more feasible than additional trains.
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Class15
Established Member
I said in my previous post that the problems are largely southbound trains in the morning and northbound trains in the evening.
I regularly travel on the North London line, Thameslink, Southern, the District line, the Jubilee line and the Northern line as well as the WLL at peak periods. The West London line is far, far worse than any of those.
‘West London line is a crucial freight route’ - correct, but there is an alternative route for most of them via South Acton surely?
not if heading to the Brighton line, on which there are multiple aggregates terminals feeding substatantial traffic to them, and if you're coming from Kent you've got to cross both Windosr lines, while Acton Wells Jn itself is hardly any less busy.
My personal solution money no object would be to build completely separate tracks for the overground but I accept there's a level of realism preventing that.
BranstonJnc
Member
Or, you just make sure freight operates or is induced to operate at off-peak periods. Considering how full the Southeastern is, which feeds almost all of the WLL traffic, it would be beneficial for all concerned for little more than a standard half-hourly path to be available throughout a period of about 07:00 - 09:59 and 16:00 - 18:59. That can be from Hither Green or Shortlands, and timed identically between Nunhead and Mitre Bridge.