Oh, the usual "held to account" line making an appearance. Utterly meaningless.
How we are led to believe is that we can stop a four car 360 at meridian 5 boards at the Thameslink stations and then the usual 8/10 blue boards same stopping point as eight car 360's at Wellingborough , Kettering and Corby.
Remind me, how many people died building just the Box tunnel alone?
Around 100 but we are talking 180 years ago!
Fair comment. Hitachi are therefore doubly incompetent. Their business is building trains and they can’t seem to build a train.
They have clearly had issues with this class in particular that have been time consuming to remediate. That suggests that the issues were either discovered late in production, requiring retrofits to a large fleet, or tricky to find a solution for - or both.
I disagree about the stop boards, I find them useful from a passengers perspective because I know where the train is going to be on the platform.
Where on earth have you got this figure from?
We have no idea what's going on inside Hitachi at the moment, although there are many reasons why the 810 program is very slow at the moment and not necessarily Hitachi's fault. Speculation but with all the recent moves made by the US, I can imagine that they may be facing a number of supply chain issues. Or maybe they have had issues with components made by third parties. They could be facing a labour shortage.
You can't really compare building a railway two centuries ago to building a train today. A modern train is extremely complex and built to an accuracy of thousandths of a millimetre, and more importantly nobody should be injured or killed building it. 200 years ago, railways were fairly simple to put together and workers were essentially treated as construction cannon fodder, if you died nobody cared.
They have no part shortage, and no labour shortage.
I'm not sure what it is you think EMR should be doing. As far as we know they are insisting on all contractual penalties being applied, and trains to be delivered in full working order, which seems to be the limit of their options. They have no power to force Hitachi to speed up (and Hitachi evidently don't have the ability to do so), and while having a big public bust-up might be satisfying it doesn't really achieve anything.
It would be an extreme and highly unlikely scenario, but the precedent for that would be Netherlands Railways and the "Fyra" high speed trains they bought from Ansaldo Breda (since bought by, erm, Hitachi) which subsequently ended up in court. Albeit the politics at play between the Dutch and Belgian Governments over the high speed line makes it a very different case to EMR and the 810s!
Erm, they do! And Hitachi are already paying financial penalties based on the contract they have.
From what I've seen in previous messages in this thread that seems to be the case - but for the ROSCO/DfT, not EMR - correct me if I'm wrong though!
ÖBB in Austria also told Bombardier where it could stick its Talent 3 sets when they were not delivered (years late) - contract cancelled and replacements ordered from Siemens instead.
Correct. EMR are getting shafted but they don’t get any compensation. The multi million pound profit ROSCO’s take it all.
It seems odd if the ROSCO don't have any obligations whatsoever to EMR. Surely EMR must have some sort of contract with them that requires the delivery of the 810's, even though they don't have a contract directly with Hitachi? Surely *everything* like this must have a contract? Otherwise it implies that EMR would get nothing even if the 810's were never delivered at all! Don't they at least get reduced leasing charges on the current 222 fleet or something?
I agree with you, however I’m not sure of the details and agreements between the EMR and the ROSCO’s. You’d think there would be some clauses etc that mean EMR aren’t completely getting done over but I’m not sure. The 222’s are leased through Eversholt so they won’t get any discounts on them unfortunately.
Right, I'd missed the fact that the 222s and the 810s are owned by different ROSCOs. Maybe EMR get to pay reduced leasing costs to Rock Rail for the 810s for a year or two, when they are finally all delivered.
I think it was £15.29m when Rock Rail East Midlands Plc’s last accounts were published. Wouldn’t be surprised if the next accounts show another penalty payment.
Correct. See my message above.
Well it took BREL 7 years or 84 months to build 95 HST sets from 1975 onwards, trains which they have never built before and which were 7 cars, not 5, so circa two and a half years would be an appropriate time to build 33 sets 50 years and a hell of a lot of experience and technology later.
Based on the 80X fleet, it was 30 days per carriage to build, then 30 days single car testing and 30 days testing as a complete train.
I was about to dig out my control card schematics before I realised that this may be rhetorical.
The ROSCO is also not earning income as no trains have been handed over thus no lease payments are being made but they have taken out loans that not only have interest on them but are also amortising from March 24. The liquidated damages mitigated most of this so far but they will be hurting if LDs are upto the contract limit.
There are still significant issues with 805s particularly the diesels. Discussions on the 805/807 thread suggest that it's unusual for 805s to have all three diesels working. Two seems to be normal.
They used something akin to a Motorola 6800 Processor (or something from that family) with a multitude of tuned circuits around it on the rack and control cards, so to less sarcastically answer the question.
