InkyScrolls
On Moderation
I'm afraid I can't say, it's a Carlisle crew on that one.
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Future of the Settle to Carlisle, Bentham and Ribble Valley lines
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Also difficult to judge, because it has relatively recently moved to its present significantly earlier path.
InkyScrolls
On Moderation
Internal memo so you'll forgive me if I can't provide a source, but apparently Northern is working with NwR to completely rewrite the S&C timetable such that all trains call at all stations, which will be a boon.
Halish Railway
Established Member
Is that all stations north of Skipton or Settle?
(Hopefully not all stations Leeds to Carlisle).
Skipton at a guess, given that most S and C now call at Gargrave and Long Preston.
anothertyke
Member
Agree. In the winter the semi fast goes through Horton at exactly the time walkers want to be going home.
However I hope recasting doesn't mean too much messing about with the slots themselves. The timetable as a whole is pretty good.
70014IronDuke
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Why a boon? And why a boon for walkers?
(Unless they are putting on more trains, that is?)
If enacted, it will definitely be a bit of a boost (hardly a boon) for Gargrave and Long Preston, I could agree, as a number of S&C trains skip these stops.
Apart from that, there's only one weekday up train that skips a few S&C stops, that's 1E65, the 13.36 Carlisle-Leeds. I imagine the most likely to take advantage of that are folks from the northern village stops that will be able to have a morning and lunch in Carlisle and get back earlier in the afternoon.
Then there's the SuO 2H66, the 16.07 off Carlisle, which is really the only 'express' working still surviving over the entire line. I think that would be far better left as it is – it's preceded by 1E20 all shacks to Nottingham only approx 50-40 mins earlier, so any walkers and cyclists can catch that with no great inconvenience.
So for me, stopping all services at all stops is a backward step. I can't believe many Long Preston passengers travel north or arrive from the north, and if they really need a train thcy can walk to Hellifield if necessary. And it will make the one 'express' working slower and less attractive for passengers from Glasgow/Dumfries/Workington changing at Carlisle for Leeds and Bradford.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Agree this is a good thing. Unless you've got stations with very poor ridership that are only really getting a Parliamentary service, it makes sense for trains to stop at all stations on quiet routes, even if some moved to request status. The S&C is a local railway serving local needs; the semifast is just a hangover from the attempted (not that successful) Glasgow service of a while back.
Suggestions of there being any point in a daily express service just have the feel of enthusiasts' desire - traditional crack expresses appeal to enthusiasts but aren't actually that useful, particularly as we're talking about adding maybe 10 minutes to an already slowish journey.
Because it's well below hourly I'd probably not go clock face as it is probably better to time specific trains for specific needs at low frequencies, but all stations definitely makes sense to me.
Suggestions of there being any point in a daily express service just have the feel of enthusiasts' desire - traditional crack expresses appeal to enthusiasts but aren't actually that useful, particularly as we're talking about adding maybe 10 minutes to an already slowish journey.
Because it's well below hourly I'd probably not go clock face as it is probably better to time specific trains for specific needs at low frequencies, but all stations definitely makes sense to me.
I disagree. By all means have an express if you wish - but not at the expense of leaving large gaps in services to the intermediate stations.
Agree with this. The long afternoon gap is very annoying when traveling to the more local stops and from using the line quite a bit the faster train is one of the quieter ones.
Calling all stops gives a regular and well thought out timetable catering for the many travel needs of locals and visitors alike.
Indeed. I think the local stops on the S&C are probably more important in generating traffic than for comparable lines, owing to the access to the Dales that they provide.
I'm pretty sure we're only talking about the one southbound, as mentioned above, the 1336 from Carlisle.
In general, if a service doesn't stop, it's for a reason. The northbound equivalent of this service has slowly had the stops inserted over several years, except the Sunday pair, which are unlikely to change.
Changing the platforms at Leeds is a nightmare, and the slot between Armley Jn and Skipton isn't exactly flexible.
There's a rather important reason the 1336 from Carlisle hasn't already had the stops inserted. The 1204 departure from Glasgow Central and the 1151 from Newcastle connect with it. These will be lost if even one more stop at Horton is added, as an earlier departure from Carlisle will be needed, and the minimum connection time therefore cannot be met. It's likely that sacrificing the connections at Carlisle is going to be the price for this service to pick up all stations to Skipton, which is finely balanced in terms of passenger numbers.
It has many benefits. But I rather hope you wouldn't be one of the people on here saying words to the effect of "it's an outrage that the S&C train leaves Carlisle just 2 minutes before the express from Glasgow gets in. It's a callous disregard for the main-line potential of the route" et cetera et cetera.
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I'm probably being dim, but your connections are at Carlisle, whereas the stops are downstream. Couldn't the service be timed to arrive a bit later in Leeds ?
That doesn't really enlighten us very much though. Why not a later arrival in Leeds ?
Iskra
Established Member
Can you evidence that statement please? It was withdrawn for political reasons rather than anything to with usage, so I’m not sure how you can draw that conclusion and state it as if it were a definitive fact.
Apologies, I thought it had been pointed out above but it appears I misread.
Unfortunately in general the services that run via Skipton are followed on minimum headway in the southbound direction out of Skipton by an all-stations to Shipley service which continues to Bradford Forster Square or Leeds. In this instance the train from Carlisle leaves at 1531 and the Bradford FS service at 1535.
There are two paths per hour; the next one is occupied by a Morecambe.
The 1336 is only loosely related to the one-time Glasgow train which ran a couple of hours later. It would now make better sense for it to leave at 1250 or 1258 (in the latter case omitting Long Preston/Gargrave but giving a better Glasgow connection).
Thanks, that sort of makes sense !
Ant158
Member
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- 5 Apr 2013
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I wonder if this timetable rewrite might include more regular trains between Clitheroe and Settle and beyond. It would be interesting to know how the Saturday service compares in terms of passenger numbers, over the previous Sunday Dalesrail service
Any timetable rewrite for the Leeds route is unlikely to include extra trains, as the capacity is reasonably matched to demand.
Clitheroe-Hellifield/Ribblehead would be a separate project. An additional round trip at 1205 or 1305 could be managed with no extra stock, but I can't see it would be much patronisedl
lyndhurst25
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- 26 Nov 2010
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Interesting that this has been brought up. I was just looking at the train times for my nephew, who is planning on doing the Yorkshire Three Peaks walk this summer, travelling from South Yorkshire (Sheffield, Meadowhall or Rotherham) The last two southbound trains of the day are an issue for him getting home, with the 2013 Carlisle to Leeds skipping stops at Dent, Ribblehead (passes at 2134) and Horton. It is followed very closely behind by the 2145 Ribblehead to Leeds stopper, that gets into Leeds at 2311, too late to connect with the last train of the day to Sheffield that leaves at 2312. I’m hoping that the proposed new timetable will improve on this.