“New research shows passengers wasting money by booking late”

[redreni]

Indeed. Not sure if you are aware, though, that Advance tickets can be changed to a different train (or indeed 'upgraded' to an Off-Peak/Anytime ticket) provided you make the change before your booked train is due to depart.

Useful to know in some circumstances, but a bit tricky to change an advance ticket if you're in a meeting that has overrun.

On the general issue, for me it's a really mixed picture. When the football fixtures come out, if it's possible to book a long-distance journey at a fixed date and time at a significantly lower price than the flexible, walk-up fare, I generally want to do that. Over a season it's generally better to do that even though games are sometimes postponed. As you say, it's often possible to make an alteration, although to be honest there are a few of us who often travel regardless if there's a late postponement (after all, it's quite common for an otherwise splendid away day to be ruined by 90 minutes of football - at least if the match is postponed there's no risk of that).

Usually, however, the rail industry lags well behind airlines and intercity coach operators in offering cheap fares months in advance. On two of the last three occasions when I've been to Altrincham from London, for example, I have flown in both directions. On the other occasion I went up on the train and back on the Megabus. In all cases I was faced with having to choose between locking in a reasonably good value fare with BA or Megabus, or waiting to see what price Avanti felt like charging nearer the time (or locking in a cheap fare on a very slow train up to Crewe and then overpaying for the last few miles up to Altrincham).

LNER is not as bad as Avanti in that respect, but no rail operator can offer the kind of booking horizon that airlines or coaches can. I understand why that is, but it strikes me as a fundamental flaw in the business model of adopting airline-style pricing if passengers have to choose between a cheap air fare or waiting and seeing what the train fare is going to be, knowing the air fare may well rise in the meantime.

I do think advances to go 5 miles or so on Northern or TPE are just anti-passenger and should be regulated out of our lives. So should TOC restricted fares on short-distance, high-frequency, turn-up-and-go journeys along busy rail corridors. Manchester Airport to Manchester city centre being a prime example - people don't know what time they're getting to Manchester Airport train station or which operator's train is going to turn up first, so they want a flexible ticket at a reasonable price. Otherwise they're getting a cab.

If train companies think the problem is passenger expectations or passenger behaviour, they either haven't understood the problem or they're just parroting DfT propaganda.

 

[Adam Williams]

Advance tickets being non-refundable means there could be a considerable loss to passengers who purchase in advance but then have to cancel.

And no matter how you try to communicate the non-refundability to customers, a significant minority of them really cannot grasp what that means.

They buy the cheapest ticket because it's the cheapest and the alternative with refundability is magnitudes more expensive. When they want a refund, some of them have clearly never been told "no" in their lives, because it's time to berate the retailer customer services staff, threaten "going to the press", threaten/pursue small claims action and/or proceed to lie to their bank to get a chargeback raised. It never used to be this common an occurrence.

As ever, the scale and nature of TOC retail operations mean that a lot of them are shielded from the consequences of their yield management strategies, which maximise income at the expense of everything else.

 

[Hadders]

The other point worth remembering is that Advance tickets are quota controlled, there is only a fixed number at each price point so once they're gone, they're gone! If everyone booked further ahead not everyone would save money.

 

[Watershed]

Useful to know in some circumstances, but a bit tricky to change an advance ticket if you're in a meeting that has overrun.

True, albeit if I'm making notes on a laptop or phone for example then it often wouldn't be a huge imposition to quickly flick over to the app/website of the retailer I used. Admittedly that won't always be possible.

Usually, however, the rail industry lags well behind airlines and intercity coach operators in offering cheap fares months in advance.

Agreed. LNER have been selling tickets further ahead but they are still nowhere near the ~1 year booking horizons that airlines, in particular, work to. If they want to be an airline on rails and change their ticketing accordingly, they need to adapt accordingly.

LNER is not as bad as Avanti in that respect, but no rail operator can offer the kind of booking horizon that airlines or coaches can.

They can - in fact, the industry structure is better suited to it than airlines and coaches if anything. Engineering works (both routine cyclical closures as well as disruptive ad-hoc closures) are planned a long time in advance and are usually confirmed around a year beforehand. Timetables only very rarely change significantly.

I understand why that is, but it strikes me as a fundamental flaw in the business model of adopting airline-style pricing if passengers have to choose between a cheap air fare or waiting and seeing what the train fare is going to be, knowing the air fare may well rise in the meantime.

Absolutely. It's why I have chosen to fly for a couple of domestic journeys despite the train ostensibly being a sensible alternative. I want to lock in a price now, not gamble at what the TOCs will offer down the line when they feel like getting into gear.

I do think advances to go 5 miles or so on Northern or TPE are just anti-passenger and should be regulated out of our lives. So should TOC restricted fares on short-distance, high-frequency, turn-up-and-go journeys along busy rail corridors.

Agreed. They have no legitimate purpose and are a significant cause of passenger confusion and conflict.

Manchester Airport to Manchester city centre being a prime example - people don't know what time they're getting to Manchester Airport train station or which operator's train is going to turn up first, so they want a flexible ticket at a reasonable price. Otherwise they're getting a cab.

The only slight "defence" I could give here is that many people will just buy a ticket when they land and know which train they can catch.

If train companies think the problem is passenger expectations or passenger behaviour, they either haven't understood the problem or they're just parroting DfT propaganda.

Absolutely. So many TOCs seem to think the world revolves around them. Newsflash - it doesn't!

 

[redreni]

The only slight "defence" I could give here is that many people will just buy a ticket when they land and know which train they can catch.

They may know that on landing if they're arriving on a domestic flight, are familiar with the layout of the airport (which massively privileges taxis and parking for private cars ahead of public transport in terms of proximity to the terminals, incidentally) and don't have luggage to collect. Otherwise I'd say there are too many variables between landing and boarding the train for many passengers to judge it accurately.

I would concede that if they just go to the train station and ask for a ticket for immediate travel, they should be sold the cheapest ticket that is valid on the next train so they shouldn't be inconvenienced by any TOC restriction if they're buying a single. Needing to buy a ticket at the station might cause them to miss a train they could otherwise have caught, though.