10.44 Preston to Windermere: Fastest class 153 working?

[Grumpy]

I travelled on the 1C72 10.44 Preston to Windermere today. This is formed by a 153 coupled to a 156. It seemed to run flat out all the way to Oxenholme.

The schedule is 35.5 minutes for the 40 miles 6 chains which I make to be almost 68 mph. I couldn't think of any other 153 working at such a relatively high speed and wondered if any of the experts on here might.

 

[cadoxton]

I travelled on the 1C72 10.44 Preston to Windermere today. This is formed by a 153 coupled to a 156. It seemed to run flat out all the way to Oxenholme.

The schedule is 35.5 minutes for the 40 miles 6 chains which I make to be almost 68 mph. I couldn't think of any other 153 working at such a relatively high speed and wondered if any of the experts on here might.

153s are often coupled to 150s on the Ebbw Vale to Cardiff Central services.
On the SWML stretch they must be approaching the 75mph limit of the 150.
Just a guess though.

 

[AndrewE]

a) I never dreamt that any "local" service would skip Lancaster!

b) http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y22530/2016/10/22/advanced
shows that it left PN 2 mins late and still lost a further 2 mins on the way!
A

ps RTT says it took 36 3/4 mins for 40 Mi 6 ch, which I reckon is about 65.5 mph, not bad!

 

[Grumpy]

153s are often coupled to 150s on the Ebbw Vale to Cardiff Central services.
On the SWML stretch they must be approaching the 75mph limit of the 150.
Just a guess though.

Yes but I was thinking in terms of overall start to stop average, which I should have explained better.

 

[LowLevel]

I have no idea of the mileage and timings and am too lazy to find out but 2E01 0507 Nottingham to Spalding and 2R92 2105 Spalding to Nottingham are probably contenders, both formed of a 153 (2 of them FO).

They run either on the ECML in part between Grantham and Peterborough or on the relatively quick line between Peterborough and Syston. 2E01 is generally on the fast line from Grantham to Peterborough.

 

[AndrewE]

I have no idea of the mileage and timings and am too lazy to find out but 2E01 0507 Nottingham to Spalding and 2R92 2105 Spalding to Nottingham are probably contenders, both formed of a 153 (2 of them FO).

They run either on the ECML in part between Grantham and Peterborough or on the relatively quick line between Peterborough and Syston. 2E01 is generally on the fast line from Grantham to Peterborough.

29 mi 9 chains in 31 mins... 56.4 mph?

 

[rebmcr]

both formed of a 153 (2 of them FO).

They make First Open 153s? ;D

 

[AndrewE]

They make First Open 153s? ;D

Some might say that the sooner the 153s FO the better! (I speak as one who has commuted between Crewe and Derby!)
A

 

[Grumpy]

a)
ps RTT says it took 36 3/4 mins for 40 Mi 6 ch, which I reckon is about 65.5 mph, not bad!

The incoming up service, 1N26, managed it in 35 minutes (68.7mph) so the timing is achievable.

 

[DarloRich]

It certainly isnt the Marston Vale services

What about a 153 on the Leeds - Carlisle services. Could they be faster?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why *does* it miss Lancaster? That seems silly.

 

[causton]

Why *does* it miss Lancaster? That seems silly.

It arrives from the north 5 minutes earlier, so possibly on a minimum turnaround go back north ASAP job!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Why *does* it miss Lancaster? That seems silly.

It is squeezed in between two VT services that do stop at Lancaster (1055 and 1108), with a TPE at 1114, so it probably wouldn't fit into the path if it did stop at Lancaster.

The southbound doesn't stop at Lancaster either: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y22406/2016/10/22/advanced

...which begs the question why they bother running the unit Oxenholme-Preston-Oxenholme at all.

 

[Starmill]

In order to provide a connection for stations to Manchester Airport.

Edit: oh, the train from Edinburgh would provide that anyway. I suppose it's probably slightly better doing that than have everyone crush in at Oxenholme though. I think these were through services which is the cause of the oddity, and will be resolved when they do run through again using more appropriate rolling stock.

 

[Bletchleyite]

TBH 3 coaches of 15x is far more appropriate than 3 coaches of 185 if you expect even vaguely high loadings. Yes, 185s are nicer, but rather a seat in a dogbox than standing on a 185.

 

[neilb62]

It certainly isnt the Marston Vale services

What about a 153 on the Leeds - Carlisle services. Could they be faster?

Even when open the S&C has a linespeed of 60 mph maximum!

 

[Grumpy]

TBH 3 coaches of 15x is far more appropriate than 3 coaches of 185 if you expect even vaguely high loadings. Yes, 185s are nicer, but rather a seat in a dogbox than standing on a 185.

It was full and standing into Windermere. I had a table to myself from Preston to Oxenholme but the three vacant seats were then taken by passengers who had connected from a Virgin train from Euston. They commented between themselves as to how much nicer and roomier this train (ie the 153) was than the Virgin train.

 

[AndrewE]

It was full and standing into Windermere. I had a table to myself from Preston to Oxenholme but the three vacant seats were then taken by passengers who had connected from a Virgin train from Euston. They commented between themselves as to how much nicer and roomier this train (ie the 153) was than the Virgin train.

Maybe F&S because it's the start of half term week? Anyway it's nice to hear a complement for a rural DMU service. I can understand the comment that the dogbox was roomier than a Pendolino, but I think I would still prefer the "EMU" for a long journey, maybe even Preston to Oxenholme.
Not saying I might not go out specially to try it, though!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

It is squeezed in between two VT services that do stop at Lancaster (1055 and 1108), with a TPE at 1114, so it probably wouldn't fit into the path if it did stop at Lancaster.

The southbound doesn't stop at Lancaster either: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y22406/2016/10/22/advanced

...which begs the question why they bother running the unit Oxenholme-Preston-Oxenholme at all.

Presumably they run it because it's not a new service. According to my old timetables, when TPE ran the service, there was a Preston-Windermere train at about that time (which did stop at Lancaster), so if they only ran the train from Oxenholme, that would be a direct loss of a service. (Also, I'm not sure whether the terms of the franchise would require a certain number of services from Preston anyway?).

I'm sure you're correct that it doesn't stop at Lancaster because of pathing difficulties (in other words, now it's not being run by a Class 185, it can't get enough speed to have enough time to stop). But not stopping at Lancaster is presumably the lesser of two evils. At least, running from Preston, it gives a direct service to the Lakes for people at Preston, and a service that requires only 1 change to people from Liverpool, Blackpool, Blackburn, etc.

On a related note, I wonder how passenger numbers on the Windermere branch are faring now? I seem to recall reading somewhere that numbers went up quite a bit when the 185s got introduced. So it's plausible that losing them and replacing with much less pleasant trains could see some people stop using the service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm slightly surprised at that, because the 3-car 175s which operated it previously were hardly unpleasant (and indeed had higher capacity).

 

[bb21]

It certainly isnt the Marston Vale services

What about a 153 on the Leeds - Carlisle services. Could they be faster?

I believe one year some forum members (and non-members) and I had an unexpected non-stop run on 2-153 between Leeds and Carlisle. Don't imagine it to have gone beyond 60mph overall but it was pretty fast.

 

[DarloRich]

Even when open the S&C has a linespeed of 60 mph maximum!

oh! even on the bottom section south of Skipton?

 

[30907]

oh! even on the bottom section south of Skipton?

No. Fair amount of 90mph since the 333s came, and IIRC 75 earlier. But not on the S and C proper (Settle Jn-Petteril Br Jn if that's the right name).
But on that bit I suspect 153's occasionally show up on Morecambes.

 

[jshaw]

No. Fair amount of 90mph since the 333s came, and IIRC 75 earlier. But not on the S and C proper (Settle Jn-Petteril Br Jn if that's the right name).
But on that bit I suspect 153's occasionally show up on Morecambes.

153s are on Morecambes a lot. M-F 13:16 with a 142 or 144 or 150. Saturday with a 3 car 144 on 13:50.

 

[All Line Rover]

They commented between themselves as to how much nicer and roomier this train (ie the 153) was than the Virgin train.

Good Lord! Pendolinos might be a little cramped, particularly when at full capacity, but I never thought they could be compared with the fume-filled 1980s time warp that is a 153.

 

[Mulberry2016]

Even when open the S&C has a linespeed of 60 mph maximum!

True, but you would shave a few minutes off the journey time from Leeds to Skipton where the line speed is up to 90 mph