45/1 performance on overnight load 12+

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Moog_1984

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Not that i was ever a big fan of "ETH Wagons" but there was one weekend I got my EE fan nose punched right out of joint by a spirited set of overnights

In 1985 IIRC spring trip on the Glasgow- Plymouth (& penzance?) Sleeper

Hoping for a "dubber" which were not all that common on the service, a 45/1 slings on at new st, but gives a very respectable run, early at a couple of stops at at Temple Meads.

Various bashing ensues, but on the way home at the end of the weekend, load 13 or 14 turns up on the Glasgow sleeper.

A different 45/1 drops on with a man possessed by satans flames as he thrashes the thing out of Bristol and proceeds later to wave the pair of syphon bankers at Lickey, holding at least 50mph at the top.

Question being: Were 45/1s actually faster than duffs on heavier fast passenger services?
 
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Peter Mugridge

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If this helps: I once had the good fortune to spend 10 days at the Scouts camp site at Blackwell Court ( this would have been summer 1980 ) and I can state for certain that Peaks did consistently pass at a higher speed than 47s - and yes, this does mean in the uphill direction.
 

pinkpanther

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Unlikely, but they must have had significantly more inertia once they were up to speed as a result of the extra weight they carried.

A more interesting comparison would be between a 45 and 46 - the 46 being basically a first generation 47 in a 45 body.
 

Old Timer

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Having spent many, many years behind 45s I can confirm that a 45 could easily out perform a 47.

The 45s were wonderful locos on gradients, and remember that there was only 5 mph between them anyway officially.

A 45 would easily run at 95 and I have had more that a good number of runs where it was closer to 100.

The fastest start to stop loco hauled working certainly in the Uk and it was said to be Europe was the 1825 St Pancras to Bedford which was timed 43 mins to run 50 miles, and this included a reduction in speed for Kempston Road Jct Fast to Slow 20 mph junction and then a slow run along the Down Slow into the station.

The only area where a 47 to overhaul a peak was if the 45 driver was holding to the 90 limit. On the Midland Main Line a 45 would always outperform a 47 owing to the number of gradients, especially on semi-fast Class 1s
 

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Peter Mugridge

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Old Timer, I can assure you a 45/1 went even faster than that once ( some sort of official timing trial I think ).
 

alanf

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I remember in the late 70s or early 80s being on a merrymaker to Blackpool. An ex works Peak was on the return run don't know if it was a 45 or 46 but it left York like a bat out of hell and was thrashed all the way to Darlington. We were used to Deltics and 47s but it seemed a lot faster.

Alan
 

Moog_1984

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I wonder if it is to do with the momentum or the power delivery set up with field diversions and amps applied? do 47s have some degree of anti idiot overload prevention?

In fact a 46 to 47 comparison would kind of answer that, right?

Do 47's not have an odd field diversion which is just after they get the train actually moving?
 
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I suppose this is not too surprising as there was only 80 hp between the classes once the 47s had been derated, and with the extra weight I presume the 45s had more adhesion on uphill sections.
 

Saltleyman

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many years ago Saltleymen used to work a Mail train from Birmingham to Bristol which stopped at Ashchurch (on a Monday only) at 3.00 am, the load on this train varied but a class 45 (D11-137) from a stand would pass the section signal (on a rising grade) at 40-45 mph, if you were unlucky enough to have a class 47, with the same trailing load, you were lucky if you reached 35-40 mph.Also from a dead start at Burton-on-Trent, heading North with a 45 you would reach 62 mph at Clay Mills with a 47 about 55mph was the norm.In my opinion class 45 were the best Diesel Electrics I ever worked on in my 47 years on the footplate at Saltley.:D
 

Moog_1984

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many years ago Saltleymen used to work a Mail train from Birmingham to Bristol which stopped at Ashchurch (on a Monday only) at 3.00 am, the load on this train varied but a class 45 (D11-137) from a stand would pass the section signal (on a rising grade) at 40-45 mph, if you were unlucky enough to have a class 47, with the same trailing load, you were lucky if you reached 35-40 mph.Also from a dead start at Burton-on-Trent, heading North with a 45 you would reach 62 mph at Clay Mills with a 47 about 55mph was the norm.In my opinion class 45 were the best Diesel Electrics I ever worked on in my 47 years on the footplate at Saltley.:D

46s were technically better though, with a thermostatic radiator fan etc though?

45s and 46s also probably got better quality production runs of the 12LDA.

Duffs were just that: derated and over-rated!

If you exclude the BTC's demands for high tech stuff and take inflation into account, they were far more expensive per loco than the 50s to build and remediate.
 
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