508's

[Benbo]

Hi All

I note that a large quantity of SE 508's have been sent away for storage (Telford or Donnington Railfreight Terminal is it?)

Can they not find used with either merseyrail or at a total guess, the Island Line on the Isle of Wight? Surely the 508's would be better served on the isle of Wight as opposed to the current ex Tube stock?

It's just a though & nothingmore............

 

[GospelOak117]

It does seem such a waste of good rolling stock that has already seen much of its life through the 90's out of service too

 

[pemma]

The 508s are too tall for the low bridges on the Isle of Wight, which is why ex-tube stock is used there.

The 508s were supposed to be going to Merseyrail to enhance Wirral line services but Merseyrail are having doubts about whether to accept them as they were very poorly maintained by Silverlink and London Overground and almost at write-off condition.

 

[theblackwatch]

I think they'd be a bit large to get through the Isle of Wight tunnels!

 

[trains2064]

Trouble is if they went to Merseyrail they wouldn't get them for free!

They are to high for the Isle of Wight.

 

[Dreadnought]

The 508s are too tall for the low bridges on the Isle of Wight, which is why ex-tube stock is used there.

The 508s were supposed to be going to Merseyrail to enhance Wirral line services but Merseyrail are having doubts about whether to accept them as they were very poorly maintained by Silverlink and London Overground and almost at write-off condition.

The 508s at Telford are not the Silverlink/London Overground ones, which are stored at Eastleigh Works, but 10 of the 12 that South Eastern were using. 1 unit is still at Ashford and the other is at Gillingham where it apparently used as a spares provider.

I think part of the problem is that they would need reworking to be compatible with the other units on Merseyrail and obviously as already indicated it then becomes an issue of lease costs.

Another issue is that 6 of the 12 units SE had have not worked for at least 3 years whilst the other 6 have been in warm store for over 18 months now.

 

[Birdbrain]

Its only Ryde Tunnel thats the issue. Any mainland stock could easily be used between St Johns Road and Shanklin with a few platform alterations and lowering some parts of the trackbed.

The only reason Ryde tunnel's trackbed cannot be lowered to enable mainland stock to be used is that it would put it too far below sea level which would leave it prone to floods.

Shame though, i would love to see the 508's over here!

 

[Oswyntail]

And surely a couple could be spared for the Lymington Branch:roll:

 

[ukrob]

The 508s at Telford are not the Silverlink/London Overground ones, which are stored at Eastleigh Works, but 10 of the 12 that South Eastern were using. 1 unit is still at Ashford and the other is at Gillingham where it apparently used as a spares provider.

I think part of the problem is that they would need reworking to be compatible with the other units on Merseyrail and obviously as already indicated it then becomes an issue of lease costs.

Another issue is that 6 of the 12 units SE had have not worked for at least 3 years whilst the other 6 have been in warm store for over 18 months now.

Merseyrail refurbs work fine in multiple with non-refurbs, but you are right in saying that modifications would be needed - certainly for the door controls etc.

 

[455driver]

They will fit through the tunnel on the Island, well they will when they are converted to open topper after they go through for the first time

As for the Lymmy line, I am sure SWT will want to take on more unique stock requiring its own spare parts and driver training!

 

[Fincra5]

Aren't the cabs of the 508s and Cigs that used to be on the line similar? Get a few units plus a couple for spares and make use of the 3rd rail.

 

[pemma]

Merseyrail refurbs work fine in multiple with non-refurbs, but you are tight in saying that modifications would be needed - certainly for the door controls etc.

The Merseyrail 507s and 508s also have a more premium type of wheel as the tight curves in the underground section in Liverpool was causing them to wear out quickly - just like what happened with the Pacers in Cornwall although the 507/8s don't screech on tight curves.

 

[ukrob]

The Merseyrail 507s and 508s also have a more premium type of wheel as the tight curves in the underground section in Liverpool was causing them to wear out quickly - just like what happened with the Pacers in Cornwall although the 507/8s don't screech on tight curves.

First time I have ever heard that (not saying you are wrong).

To be fair though, stick them on the Northern Line only and it is not an issue.

 

[MCR247]

First time I have ever heard that (not saying you are wrong).

To be fair though, stick them on the Northern Line only and it is not an issue.

And then you could stick a toilet in them because they are longer journeys?

 

[ukrob]

And then you could stick a toilet in them because they are longer journeys?

Nah - the longest journey is only an hour and upwards of 1 in 3 stations have toilets - not worth the expense of remodelling interiors, adding retention tanks and the equipment to empty them.

 

[pemma]

First time I have ever heard that (not saying you are wrong).

To be fair though, stick them on the Northern Line only and it is not an issue.

It was done after a few years back Merseyrail had to implement a 30 minute frequency on all Wirral line services throughout the day (even at peak times) for a few months. Merseytravel issued them with a hefty fine for not taking care of the trains better but Merseyrail insisted it wasn't their fault and blamed Network Rail for work they had done on the tracks.

 

[YorkshireBear]

only every rode on merseyrail once in off peak, what does it get like in peak times do they need them?

 

[First class]

only every rode on merseyrail once in off peak, what does it get like in peak times do they need them?

I don't think so.

The peak is busy, but I believe that adding capacity will increase passenger numbers, which has a lot of negative benefits at the moment, primarily concerning the ageing state of Liverpool Central station, (and to some extent Moorfields), which is dangerously unfit for purpose during both peaks and Saturday day time, mainly lack of room and facilities.

I would say that on a 'normal' day, an extra 2 or 3 services could do with 6-car strengthening, and enough stock is 'technically' available to do this, but thinking about maintenance schedules, and the confirmed December 2010 timetable change on the Wirral, it would be pointless to start this strengthening now considering that 100% unit availability requirement is necessary for the additional Chester services. Not enough demand to warrant the extra costs involves bringing the additional units to Merseyside.

 

[ukrob]

I don't think so.

The peak is busy, but I believe that adding capacity will increase passenger numbers, which has a lot of negative benefits at the moment, primarily concerning the ageing state of Liverpool Central station, (and to some extent Moorfields), which is dangerously unfit for purpose during both peaks and Saturday day time, mainly lack of room and facilities.

I would say that on a 'normal' day, an extra 2 or 3 services could do with 6-car strengthening, and enough stock is 'technically' available to do this, but thinking about maintenance schedules, and the confirmed December 2010 timetable change on the Wirral, it would be pointless to start this strengthening now considering that 100% unit availability requirement is necessary for the additional Chester services. Not enough demand to warrant the extra costs involves bringing the additional units to Merseyside.

I agree - people who say it is over-crowded in the peaks have never experienced actual over-crowding in my opinion. They should try going to Lime Street to get a Cl142 leaving people behind with the next service 30 minutes away.

If extra stock was available, one thing I would like to see would be a ten minute frequency service on the Southport line between the morning and evening peaks.