About Italy - Slovenia connection

[Stephen Lee]

The Regional Train between Udine/Trieste - Ljubljana was splitted in Villa Opicina and the Trenitalia Frecciarossa to Ljubljana has been shelved or delayed, Leaving EC Emona the only direct train from Slovenia to Italy. What is causing such problems?

I heard that the ETR563/564 has lost its operating license in Slovenia. Is it true? But Italian and Slovenian networks both use 3000V DC for electrified networks.

 

[etr221]

The Regional Train between Udine/Trieste - Ljubljana was splitted in Villa Opicina and the Trenitalia Frecciarossa to Ljubljana has been shelved or delayed, Leaving EC Emona the only direct train from Slovenia to Italy. What is causing such problems?

Bottom line is a lack of willingness on the part of the Italians and/or the Slovenes, at both railway and government level (probably both) to provide cross border services. Common to very many cross border links ... see Jon Worth's blog and Cross Border Rail website - he has written a lot about such problems all over Europe.

I heard that the ETR563/564 has lost its operating license in Slovenia. Is it true? But Italian and Slovenian networks both use 3000V DC for electrified networks.

The Slovene electric network originated in lines electrified by FS before the war, that became Yugoslav after it - post war electriication in that area (i.e. Slovenia and part of Croatia) was an extension using the same electrification standards. These days there are also signalling and other things to worry about - I did read a good few years ago that locos inter-working across the border had to have all their inscriptions in both Italian and Slovene...

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

According to bahn.de there are still two trains daily from Villa Opicina to Ljubljana and v.v. as well as EC 135. Unfortunately, the tramway from Villa Opicina to Trieste is still out of action. One of the problems, I think, is that the railway is not very competitive with coaches on the motorway - it is rather circuitous in Slovenia and trains must take a long loop around to reach Trieste.

 

[Austriantrain]

One of the problems, I think, is that the railway is not very competitive with coaches on the motorway - it is rather circuitous in Slovenia and trains must take a long loop around to reach Trieste.

Exactly this. To have half-decent journey times towards the rest of Italy, trains would need to bypass Trieste. Not ideal either.

If would make sense to (make the tram operational again first of course and) extend the tram back to Villa Opicina station again. That way, there would be a modicum of service for Trieste (which does not afford onward rail connections anyway, if the international trains continue towards Venice).

Unfortunately, Slovene attitude toward railways is very lukewarm (also due to the fact that journey times are not competitive anywhere in the country) and Trenitalia really does not have a lot of interest in international services except where they can show off a high-speed train.

 

[etr221]

I'm not sure how good a link the Tram up from Trieste to Opicina (even extended to the station) would be (the main part of the climb is done as a funicular): when working it's a good attraction for tourists/enthusiasts, and ok as a local service, but not really as a connection - at one time FS provided a connecting road coach, station to station, as a much better option.

 

[Austriantrain]

I'm not sure how good a link the Tram up from Trieste to Opicina (even extended to the station) would be (the main part of the climb is done as a funicular): when working it's a good attraction for tourists/enthusiasts, and ok as a local service, but not really as a connection - at one time FS provided a connecting road coach, station to station, as a much better option.

There is really no need to connect the stations - there are no meaningful connections at Trieste Centrale which a Ljubljana - Venice service stopping somewhere East of Trieste eg at Monfalcone would not also enable.

 

[riceuten]

I'm not sure how good a link the Tram up from Trieste to Opicina (even extended to the station) would be (the main part of the climb is done as a funicular): when working it's a good attraction for tourists/enthusiasts, and ok as a local service, but not really as a connection - at one time FS provided a connecting road coach, station to station, as a much better option.

I'm old enough to remember the previous direct train, and the tramway operating, and the FS coach operating from Villa Opicina to Trieste Central Station.

The direct train takes (and used to take) a circuitous route out to the coast and back. The scenery was breath taking, but it took, as I recall, 45 minutes. The tramway is a real tragedy, and a salutary lesson in how not to run a public service. I believe spec'ing up the repairs took years, the money allocated to effect the repairs was embezzled by parties unknown, and although test runs were undertaken in 2022, as reports from ANSA indicate that "the city is now awaiting approval from Ansfisa, the national rail safety authority, which has introduced additional requirements that are further extending the timeline. The administration had previously assured that work would be completed by the fall of 2020, but these new regulations have delayed progress".

The tramway terminated 20 minutes walk from the train station.

 

[etr221]

There is really no need to connect the stations - there are no meaningful connections at Trieste Centrale which a Ljubljana - Venice service stopping somewhere East of Trieste eg at Monfalcone would not also enable.

Villa Opicina cannot really be described as being 'in' Trieste: primary purpose of the link would be for passengers (principally from Slovenia) to get down to Trieste C.le (main station for the city, which is pretty central).

 

[Austriantrain]

Villa Opicina cannot really be described as being 'in' Trieste: primary purpose of the link would be for passengers (principally from Slovenia) to get down to Trieste C.le (main station for the city, which is pretty central).

Oh I know. I don’t think you got my point though.

 

[Stephen Lee]

According to bahn.de there are still two trains daily from Villa Opicina to Ljubljana and v.v. as well as EC 135. Unfortunately, the tramway from Villa Opicina to Trieste is still out of action. One of the problems, I think, is that the railway is not very competitive with coaches on the motorway - it is rather circuitous in Slovenia and trains must take a long loop around to reach Trieste.

will EC 135 be replaced once Koralmbahn is opened? Or at least shortened to Graz as part of IR Mur-Drau?

Exactly this. To have half-decent journey times towards the rest of Italy, trains would need to bypass Trieste. Not ideal either.

If would make sense to (make the tram operational again first of course and) extend the tram back to Villa Opicina station again. That way, there would be a modicum of service for Trieste (which does not afford onward rail connections anyway, if the international trains continue towards Venice).

Unfortunately, Slovene attitude toward railways is very lukewarm (also due to the fact that journey times are not competitive anywhere in the country) and Trenitalia really does not have a lot of interest in international services except where they can show off a high-speed train.

Why do u think Trenitalia does not have a lot of interest in international services?

Exactly this. To have half-decent journey times towards the rest of Italy, trains would need to bypass Trieste. Not ideal either.

If would make sense to (make the tram operational again first of course and) extend the tram back to Villa Opicina station again. That way, there would be a modicum of service for Trieste (which does not afford onward rail connections anyway, if the international trains continue towards Venice).

Unfortunately, Slovene attitude toward railways is very lukewarm (also due to the fact that journey times are not competitive anywhere in the country) and Trenitalia really does not have a lot of interest in international services except where they can show off a high-speed train.

If Trenitalia does not have a lot of interest in slower international routes, then just leave it to an open access operator like Arenaways(a subsidiary of Renfe). Trenitalia can expand internationally with a high speed train but SNCF Italia or NTV may see a chance for competition

 

[eastwestdivide]

Update on the Trieste/Villa Opicina tram at

Ferrovie.it - Trieste, via libera da ANSFISA per il tram di Opicina

Dopo otto anni di fermo, il celebre Tram di Opicina, uno dei simboli di Trieste, è pronto a...

www.ferrovie.it

…ANSFISA (Agenzia Nazionale per la Sicurezza delle Ferrovie e delle Infrastrutture) ha dato l'autorizzazione definitiva, sancendo così la conclusione delle verifiche tecniche e dei lavori di adeguamento.

La linea, che collega il centro di Trieste con l'altopiano carsico, tornerà operativa inizialmente per il pre-esercizio. Questo periodo servirà per testare la funzionalità dell'intera infrastruttura e garantire la massima sicurezza ai passeggeri, prima dell'avvio ufficiale del servizio regolare…

i.e. the safety agency ANSIFISA has given final authorisation for it to operate, so now there will be a period of testing before regular public service launches.

 

[geoffk]

Update on the Trieste/Villa Opicina tram at

Ferrovie.it - Trieste, via libera da ANSFISA per il tram di Opicina

Dopo otto anni di fermo, il celebre Tram di Opicina, uno dei simboli di Trieste, è pronto a...

www.ferrovie.it

i.e. the safety agency ANSIFISA has given final authorisation for it to operate, so now there will be a period of testing before regular public service launches.

That's good news as at one time reopening seemed unlikely. As has been said above, the direct train takes a very circuitous route because of the gradients involved. I did it on a steam train in 2016.

 

[AlbertBeale]

That's good news as at one time reopening seemed unlikely. As has been said above, the direct train takes a very circuitous route because of the gradients involved. I did it on a steam train in 2016.

All we need now is for it to be extended at the upper end to somewhere near the rail station there! I remember the first time I used it, going up from the centre for Trieste, at dusk one day many years ago - and thought I'd been dumped in the middle of nowhere, with nothing I could see to indicate where the centre of Villa Opicina was (or indeed whether it had "a centre"), let alone any hint that there was a significative border[ish!] railway station within walking distance.

(Actually, I've always wondered why the left fork on the old line from Villa Opicina to Trieste [the one which runs down to the docks via a massively shorter route than does the right fork going to Centrale, and which the tram passes over on its way down]) couldn't itself have a right fork further down, to link into the line from Centrale to the docks [which the tram also crosses, though the former must be in a tunnel at that point]. OK, it would need a bit of tunnelling, but it'd save miles compared to the current passenger train route from T Centrale up to Slovenia.)

 

[nwales58]

I was around Trieste a week ago. The Ljubljana service seemed to be a change at Villa Opicina, some mornings a 3 coach ALe501 turned up as the ‘Ljubljana’-Udine.

The Opicina tramway is advertised as running from 1st February, but from Piazza Dalmazia instead of Piazza Oberdan.

 

[etr221]

The tram reopened yesterday, Saturday 1st February. Report (in italian) at https://www.ilpiccolo.it/speciali/tram-di-opicina/tram-opicina-trieste-ritorno-rdskc5xp with story at https://www.ilpiccolo.it/cronaca/franco-storti-tranviere-tram-opicina-dctqustj , also (in english) at https://www.intrieste.com/2025/02/0...riestes-opicina-line-rolls-back-into-service/ and https://www.intrieste.com/2025/02/0...s-service-in-trieste-after-eight-year-hiatus/ .

 

[nwales58]

For Villa Opicina station, Trieste urban bus 4 diverts to stop outside the station twice a day in each direction connecting in/out of the Ljubljana regional trains, it takes 20 minutes. No point in walking 1km from the tram.

Being realistic, Trieste-Ljubljana takes 1h30 by coach with at least half a dozen services per day. Train takes 2h45 with only 2/3 services per day so only ever going to be useful for intermediate journeys, if that. Modern motorway versus single track empire-era railway.

To Koper there is a bus every hour or two.

 

[etr221]

All we need now is for it to be extended at the upper end to somewhere near the rail station there! I remember the first time I used it, going up from the centre for Trieste, at dusk one day many years ago - and thought I'd been dumped in the middle of nowhere, with nothing I could see to indicate where the centre of Villa Opicina was (or indeed whether it had "a centre"), let alone any hint that there was a significative border[ish!] railway station within walking distance.

(Actually, I've always wondered why the left fork on the old line from Villa Opicina to Trieste [the one which runs down to the docks via a massively shorter route than does the right fork going to Centrale, and which the tram passes over on its way down]) couldn't itself have a right fork further down, to link into the line from Centrale to the docks [which the tram also crosses, though the former must be in a tunnel at that point]. OK, it would need a bit of tunnelling, but it'd save miles compared to the current passenger train route from T Centrale up to Slovenia.)

The link from the main line into Trieste C.le round to the docks area at TS Campo Marzio Smistamento - which was constructed relatively recently (opened 1981-82) to replace the line along the Rive (sea front) - is in tunnel all the way: I don't know if it's approved for passenger trains. Also worth commenting is that the former kkStB line from TS CM has a gradient of 2.5% all the way up to Villa Opicina, which has an altitude of 310m.

 

[rvdborgt]

All we need now is for it to be extended at the upper end to somewhere near the rail station there!

You mean reinstated... it existed until 1938, when it was closed because it had always remained little used and due to the narrow radius of the curve at the end of Via di Prosecco which the new carriages could not travel (according to the Italian Wikipedia page).

Being realistic, Trieste-Ljubljana takes 1h30 by coach with at least half a dozen services per day. Train takes 2h45 with only 2/3 services per day

3 per day in both directions. The evening regional service from Trieste to Ljubljana currently doesn't show in most planners because apparently neither Trenitalia nor SŽ could be bothered to share the timetable data with the rest of the world.

 

[AlbertBeale]

You mean reinstated... it existed until 1938, when it was closed because it had always remained little used and due to the narrow radius of the curve at the end of Via di Prosecco which the new carriages could not travel (according to the Italian Wikipedia page).

Ah yes - Prosecco affects my cornering too...

 

[nwales58]

3 per day in both directions. The evening regional service …

yes, only shows on Trenitalia, not international planners.

There is a 4th service, a Villa Opicina-Sezana balancing working in each direction which connects (badly) with other services.

But these links are essentially useful for freight which doesn’t mind the lengthy journey times.

There was another line from Trieste port up to Hrpelje and Divaca for Ljubljana, K.u.K Staatsbahn (austrian state/empire railways) breaking the Südbahn (private company) monopoly I think. Now a nice bike track.

 

[geoffk]

I watched the video of the tramway reopening. The trams have a retractable step but there's still a climb for passengers in and out of the saloon. Provision of level boarding would need significant investment (and ideally new trams!)

 

[etr221]

There was another line from Trieste port up to Hrpelje and Divaca for Ljubljana, K.u.K Staatsbahn (austrian state/empire railways) breaking the Südbahn (private company) monopoly I think. Now a nice bike track.

First thing to clarify is that "KuK" (for 'Kaiser- und Königreiches', Imperial and Royal) signified 'Empire of Austria and Kingdom of Hungary' and was the abbreviation for (the few) institutions common to both halves of the dual monarchy - and railways were not. For the non-Hungarian half of the Empire (it only became officially referred to as 'Austrian' in I think 1915, I forget how it was before then), the abbreviation was "k.k." (kaiserlich-königlichen, referring to the Emperor of Austria and King of Bohemia), so the (imperial) state railways were the kkStB (k.k. Staatsbahnen), becaming the k.k. österreichische Staatsbahnen in 1915. (Hungarian institutions, for the other half of the dual monarchy, used a single k for kiraly (royal in Hungarian), indicating kingdom of Hungary)

The line from TS Sant Andrea/Campomarzio to Erpelle/Hrpelje was built (1887) as a branch off the kkStB's Istrian line, from Divaca (where it branched off the SB (Südbahn) mainline) to Pula, and was closed in 1959, now (as stated) a bike track.

The kkStB later built - at the urging of Bohemian industrialists, to break the SB monopoly - a second line to Trieste, the Transalpina/Wocheinerbahn/Bohinjski Praga, opened in 1906, from TS Sant Andrea/Campomarzio to Jesenice and points north - one of the world's tragic main lines, as post war border changes split it up, destroying its intended role (though I understand under the EU there are projects to reverse this). This is the line from Campomarzio up to Villa Opicina.

 

[nwales58]

eter221: thanks for the corrections and extra info.

 

[Austriantrain]

For the non-Hungarian half of the Empire (it only became officially referred to as 'Austrian' in I think 1915, I forget how it was before then),

Officially „die im Reichsrate vertretenen Königreiche und Länder“ (the Kingdoms and countries/territories represented in the Imperial Council“), unofficially „Cisleithanien“ (the hungarian side was „Transleithanien“, separated by the river Leitha.)

From what I gather, „Österreich“ (Austria) was widely used in the German-speaking part before 1915, but the Slavic-language parts opposed its official use.

 

[nwales58]

Just noticed vagonweb have FR136/139 replacing the evening Trieste-Ljubljana and early return from 15/06/2025:

vagonWEB » Řazení vlaků » 2025 » TI FR » FR 136 Frecciarossa 1000 ETR 400

www.vagonweb.cz

but Trenitalia still show it as the regional service.

Anyone know any more?

 

[Gloster]

My European Rail Timetable weekly flyer says that the Trieste-Villa Opicina tramway reopened with a limited service on February 1, but more services are to be introduced over the next few weeks. There is more information in the timetable‘s editorial and timetable 601.

 

[nwales58]

My European Rail Timetable weekly flyer ...more information in the timetable‘s editorial and timetable 601.

Full details on the region's web site:

Riparte sabato 1° febbraio la storica trenovia di Opicina

None

tplfvg.it

can't see an english version. Summary: 1 tram in service 19 journeys daily, from 17/02/25 39 journeys, from 03/03/25 58 journeys daily. No mention of when the final 100m re-opens.