Accidentally over-travelling

[guilbert]

This is a slightly hypothetical question as I'm not actually in a dispute, but I'd be interested for any advice on handling such situations in general.

A few years ago I accidentally got on a non-stop Kings Cross -> Cambridge train instead of the one which stopped at Hitchin, where I was actually trying to get to (to be fair they left at the same time and they'd swapped the usual platforms around...). Obviously if I'd been challenged on the train I would just have to have explained myself and hope for the best but once I arrived at Cambridge I had a bit of a dilemma. Ideally I'd have bought a ticket back but the ticket machines were all the other side of the gateline so the options seemed to be:

1) Confess to the gateline staff who might have:
- Told me not to worry about it and just go back to Hitchin
- Let me out to buy a ticket back
- Issued a penalty fare (and maybe still need to buy a ticket back)
- Taken my details with a view to prosecuting me

or
2) Just take the next train back to Hitchin where I could use my season ticket to get out, knowing the chances of there being an RPI on the train were small.

I decided to take the second option and "got away with it", with the only cost being an hour or so wasted of my evening.

So, what's the best policy for dealing with these situations (other than checking which train you're getting on - I've only done it once in ~10 years)? Was there anything to be gained by speaking to the gateline staff?

 

[bubieyehyeh]

I'd like to know the answer also.

I fell asleep on way home and woke up just after the station I was suppose to change at.

I found the guard and explained I had fallen asleep and could I buy a return to next station to get back.

He said not to worry and just get the train back at the next stop.

However I was still worried I might get ticket checked on way back to my normal route.

 

[yorkie]

In the scenario described, I would have done the same as you did.

 

[najaB]

I am not railway staff, so this is based purely on my observations - as recently as last night a lady boarded a first stop Stirling service from Glasgow Queen Street and wanted an earlier station...

There isn't, as far as I know, specific guidance to staff what to do in this situation but from what I've seen if the mistake is an easy one (e.g. most trains stop at that station but this one doesn't or two departures close together) then it's have a laugh, alight at the next station and make your way back. Sometimes with ticket endorsed, sometimes not.

Personally I've never seen a guard 'go official' and insist on a new ticket.

 

[BanburyBlue]

I am not railway staff, so this is based purely on my observations - as recently as last night a lady boarded a first stop Stirling service from Glasgow Queen Street and wanted an earlier station...

There isn't, as far as I know, specific guidance to staff what to do in this situation but from what I've seen if the mistake is an easy one (e.g. most trains stop at that station but this one doesn't or two departures close together) then it's have a laugh, alight at the next station and make your way back. Sometimes with ticket endorsed, sometimes not.

Personally I've never seen a guard 'go official' and insist on a new ticket.

I have. I was on a XC service to Leeds. A passenger wanted to get off at Derby. He left it too late and by the time he picked up all his belongings the train had departed. The guard explained that all he had to do was get a train back from Sheffield, thought about it for a few seconds, then made the passenger pay for a Derby - Sheffield return.

 

[najaB]

I have. I was on a XC service to Leeds. A passenger wanted to get off at Derby. He left it too late and by the time he picked up all his belongings the train had departed. The guard explained that all he had to do was get a train back from Sheffield, thought about it for a few seconds, then made the passenger pay for a Derby - Sheffield return.

I can kind of see why in that case - it wasn't a case of boarding a train that didn't stop at the station the passenger wanted.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Never happened to me personally, but I agree with previous comments that the most you'll get is a "You daft bugger... You want the XX:XX from the other platform - just show the guard your ticket and explain"

 

[BanburyBlue]

I can kind of see why in that case - it wasn't a case of boarding a train that didn't stop at the station the passenger wanted.

Really? Surely in all cases in this post it was the passenger who messed it up. Least in this case the passenger was actually on the right train.

 

[najaB]

Really? Surely in all cases in this post it was the passenger who messed it up. Least in this case the passenger was actually on the right train.

Yes, I agree that in both cases the passenger has messed up, but the distinction is that if you board a train that's non-stop past your station then it's pretty much out of your control. Which is slightly different to missing your stop through being too engrossed in what you are doing.

 

[matt_world2004]

I have done it , boarded a first stop Slough service with an oyster card that has left from the Thames local stopper platforms at Paddington. Worst thing was the passenger information screen near the platform wasn't working at Paddington either. Would have argued strongly if I got caught by an RPI. I have seen people get overcarried going from Paddington to Ealing Broadway because the train is so full too

 

[Nippy]

If I was going Padd to Ealing and the train was that full I'd make sure I was next to the door!

 

[island]

I've occasionally boarded a train at London Bridge/Waterloo East with next stop New Eltham when wanting Lee. As my Z1-3 season ticket was on an Oyster card the times I've done that, I simply touched out at New Eltham.

I have previously had a paper season ticket and I guess if I had got on that train by accident in those circumstances I would have got my phone out and bought a ticket from Lee to New Eltham and hoped for the best if there were RPIs at New Eltham (which is ungated on the down).

 

[185143]

I got on an ATW 175 at Piccadilly once which was on a mid Cheshire line diversion. Looked at the screen and saw an intermediate stop, but got on the voyager behind (as it was required). The 175 pulled in about 10 minutes later, it was required so I flagged the vomiter.

The intermediate stop wasn't Stockport it was Mouldsworth! (Yes, really!) The guard happily endorsed my ticket and let me travel back.

I've got on non stop Manchester-Stafford XC before (engineering works I wasn't aware of-wanting Stockport). I knew something was wrong when we passed Mauldeth Road, went to the TM who, once he'd stopped laughing, told me to speak to platform staff who endorsed an itinerary for me. The TM on the return journey (to Manchester) found it quite funny also!

 

[[.n]]

In many years commuting, only once did I manage to get make this mistake, guard just told me to get off and travel back from next stop, no need to buy a ticket, which seemed reasonable to me. In my defence I did manage to get an earlier train than normal, and it one of a very few that didn't stop at my station

 

[simonw]

I got on a train at Solihull thinking the train stopped at Tyseley but it didn't. At Moorstreet the gate staff said just catch the next one back. So I did.

 

[fowler9]

I would like to give some of my extensive experience. Being a fan of after work pints and lunchtime pints combined with an illness I have managed to wake up in places as varies as New Street, Euston, Milton Keynes, Holyhead, Stafford, Manchester Piccadilly, Crewe, Hartford and Runcorn. I suffer from Anxiety and Insomnia and when combined with an after work pint I can often doze off at any time in a flash. I have mostly been woken up by the guard with varying reactions, all good. I've always been totally honest and always been believed. Even when ending up in Euston when travelling from Chester to Crewe. The most I have paid because of my mistake was from Hartford to Runcorn. The other times either crew on the train or gateline staff have endorsed my ticked despite the length of some of those journies. On none of these occasions have I mentioned my mental illness or insomnia to any staff. The have always just been really good with me.

 

[MichaelAMW]

The old Ticket Examiner's Handbook gave specific permission for passengers overcarried to return by the next available train, without charge. I suspect that document was lost along with the nationalised railway.

 

[furlong]

The old Ticket Examiner's Handbook gave specific permission for passengers overcarried to return by the next available train, without charge. I suspect that document was lost along with the nationalised railway.

I think it should still apply:

Providing you are satisfied with the traveller's explanation that there is no attempt to avoid payment, customers who are inadvertently over-carried may be permitted to return to the intended destination by the next train.

 

[alfienoakes667]

A friend of mine once fell asleep on the train and ended up in Hornsey train wash - that might have been an extreme case of over travelling !!

 

[JamesRowden]

I had a funny experience of traveling in the wrong direction in Germany without knowing it, until I realised when the train terminated before I was supposed to change trains. My ticket had the time and platform of my Hamburg departure printed on it but not the destination of the train. The platform train departure screen showed the time of departure and the destination but not the intermediate stops. I carefully followed the instructions on my ticket but it turned out to be the wrong train. I looked at a map when the train terminated at Lubec to see that I'd gone 45 degrees in the wrong direction. I subsequently went to the information point at the station to explain what had happened. I was allowed to catch a rural line to get back on route. I wasn't given the 5 Euro fine that I should have got for catching a train other than those shown on my advance ticket. I arrived at my destination an hour late after traveling on rolling stock and lines which I wouldn't have travelled on if I had got the correct train from Hamburg.

 

[tony6499]

It depends, as at Brighton on the Victoria fasts we'd often get someone with a Preston Park ticket to get through the gates and not expecting a ticket check on board travel to East Croydon where their freedom pass took them onwards.

With experience it comes easier to know who genuinely got a wrong train and those who try it on.

 

[Trackman]

it's happened to me, the guard told me not to worry and board the next train back.
I was working for NR at the time and on a NR subsidised season ticket so I was worried about RPI's, so I ended up buying a return ticket at Lancaster just to be safe.
I would love to know the official line on this, especially in the eyes of a RPI.

 

[CheesyChips]

I had a funny experience of traveling in the wrong direction in Germany without knowing it, until I realised when the train terminated before I was supposed to change trains. My ticket had the time and platform of my Hamburg departure printed on it but not the destination of the train. The platform train departure screen showed the time of departure and the destination but not the intermediate stops. I carefully followed the instructions on my ticket but it turned out to be the wrong train. I looked at a map when the train terminated at Lubec to see that I'd gone 45 degrees in the wrong direction. I subsequently went to the information point at the station to explain what had happened. I was allowed to catch a rural line to get back on route. I wasn't given the 5 Euro fine that I should have got for catching a train other than those shown on my advance ticket. I arrived at my destination an hour late after traveling on rolling stock and lines which I wouldn't have travelled on if I had got the correct train from Hamburg.

I had a similar experience in France. Getting the train at Lyon which I thought was going to Geneva. I hadn't realised that I had to change at Bellegarde and went all the way as far as Annemasse before I felt that the infamous water jet of Geneva was the wrong side of me

Like with you, there was a local train that popped over the border and got me there without any trouble. The SNCF staff were obviously amused.

 

[terryc]

This happened to me a few weeks back..
Three of us were catching a London Euston train from Warrington Bank Quay as far as Crewe. Matrix signs at WBQ clearly stated the next train to arrive was calling at Crewe, Wolverhampton, Birmingham NS and B. Int.
We boarded the train, and as it pulled out of the station only to hear the announcement, "this is the xxxx service to London Euston, calling at London Euston only"
Panic ensued, and we sought out the Train Manager in order to explain the situation. At first, it seemed that it was going to be our problem, and next stop Euston with the associated additional costs, but the manager had second thoughts, as more and more pax approached him with similar issues. He was extremely helpful as it became evident that it was indeed an error at WBQ. It didn't help that the Pendolino destination / next stop displays next to the doors weren't working either!
An unscheduled stop was arranged at Stafford, and we were amazed that at least 30 people alighted.
We caught a Virgin service back to Crewe, without any problems courtesy of an (again) very helpful train manager.
We arrived at Crewe less than an hour late.
Although we (I think!) were eligible for Delay Repay, we didn't claim as the inconvenience wasn't great, and the actions of the Train Manager were so helpful.

 

[najaB]

Although we (I think!) were eligible for Delay Repay, we didn't claim as the inconvenience wasn't great, and the actions of the Train Manager were so helpful.

I think, letter of the law, you weren't eligible as (technically) it was your fault boarding the wrong train. Spirit of the law I think you would have been eligible, but like yourself I wouldn't have claimed due to the assistance of staff in minimising your delay.

 

[rpjs]

I think, letter of the law, you weren't eligible as (technically) it was your fault boarding the wrong train. Spirit of the law I think you would have been eligible, but like yourself I wouldn't have claimed due to the assistance of staff in minimising your delay.

I disagree. These passengers were delayed due to being misdirected onto a train that wasn't displaying its correct information. The delay was no fault of the passengers. It's good that the train staff took action to mitigate the delay, but it was still clearly the railway's fault. I would have claimed in such a circumstance.

 

[fowler9]

Despite a lot of the moaning you see from certain sections of the public the train crew and gateline staff are excellent at using discretion when it comes to the situations I have been in. Fortunately my current medication seems to be doing the trick and insomnia doesn't seem to be an issue over recent months (Apart from last night, ha ha, fortunately I was just in the house).

 

[yorkie]

I think, letter of the law, you weren't eligible as (technically) it was your fault boarding the wrong train.....

I disagree. If 30 people (and we're not talking about one group following a leader!) were mislead by the departure boards, then there is no way that argument can hold water.

 

[najaB]

I disagree. If 30 people (and we're not talking about one group following a leader!) were mislead by the departure boards, then there is no way that argument can hold water.

Note I said 'letter of the law' - meaning strict interpretation. The train they boarded ran to time, hence no delay repay is due.

However, I also said that in the 'spirit of the law' they would be entitled.

Explain to me how, under strict interpretation of the appropriate section of the Passenger Charter, they would be entitled to delay repay:

5.2 Compensation
If your train is delayed or cancelled, or a delay or cancellation of a Virgin train causes a delay to your overall journey, you may be entitled to claim compensation.

We do not normally accept claims in cases where trains are delayed if you were notified of the delay before you purchased your ticket and you still decide to travel. We will, however, consider each case on its own merits.

Our Delay Repay scheme means that if you hold a ticket for a single or return journey you can claim compensation for a delay of 30 minutes or more, irrespective of what caused the delay.

You could argue that the 'irrespective of what caused the delay' covers it, but it's pretty clear that means the delay to the train, rather than the delay to the journey or I could claim for literally *anything* that caused my journey to be delayed (e.g. I woke up late).

 

[LowLevel]

I've previously had a chap jump on my train at Chinley wanting the Hope Valley stopper for Bamford. As we crossed the down stopper in Totley Tunnel and consequently he would have been stuck for hours, I was lucky enough to get a cooperative controller who took me on my word I wouldn't hang about and gave me permission to stop to drop him off at Bamford.

I've also had a bloke with a Virgin Only Manchester to Stockport ticket who didn't seem at all surprised or unhappy to be overcarried to Sheffield. So having sold him another ticket from Manchester to Stockport I arranged for a BTP officer to escort him back to the next fast service towards Stockport. Suddenly he seemed to be less than amused.

That to be fair is the only case I've ever had that seemed less than genuine, normally they get endorsed and given as much help as possible to get back. I've ended up in unintended places myself before so I have every sympathy!