Actual removal of a line

[Andy873]

There is so much history of when / how a railway line was built, how much it cost etc, but you have to dig deep to find out some details of the very end of a line, i.e. the actual removal of it / and it's stations.

Now I'm very interested what you all might remember / saw of your line being removed and the process it involved.

I can only state a few things about my line (North Lancs loop line - and sorry to quote it again!)

Here are the things I know:
There were 3 stations on the line, Great Harwood, Simonstone, & Padiham.
Simonstone was only a very small station, but the other two had much bigger goods yards and were much busier.

After official closure (Nov 1964) which by then was freight only and double tracked, the down line was lifted sometime in 1965, and Great Harwood station was demolished. It left only the Up line running from Rose Grove (Burnley) to Blackburn.

Some of the down line track was taken and stored at Blackburn, I guess the rest was cut up and sold for scrap.

So from some time 1965 until late 1967 this left only the Up line, with no track off the sidings, presumably as a possible diversionary route if it where needed.

Eventually in 1967 the remaining line was cut up by contractors - I'm told 1 mile a week was easily possible?

In 1971, BR was starting talks with Lancashire County Council to see if they would buy the whole land / track bed.

Eventually, the LCC did buy some land, some others bought the other parts of it.

So in this case BR's route was this:
1. Pull up one of the two lines.
2. Sell assets i.e. stone, rail, wooden sleepers etc.
3. Leave 1 line in case it was needed.
4. After 2 years with the line not being used, pull it up, and try to sell the track bed.

Does this sound reasonable to you all, and what do you remember of your line being removed / sold off?

I remember seeing 8F (probably 48218) pulling the demolition train - to a little boy, the sight of a steam engine passing by was unforgettable.

Several sources tell me that in these cases of double lines, after 1 line was pulled, there was an "unofficial" 2 year wait and see period before they pulled the remaining line - is this just a myth do you think? It seems to be the case in many I have researched.

Thanks,
Andy.

 

[John Webb]

It may be worthwhile looking at http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/ as they often have photos of lines being dismantled.

The retention of one line out of two is more likely, I think, because of the need to retain access to goods yards and/or private sidings due to contracts to carry goods. A number of lines remained open for goods traffic long after passenger trains were stopped. Clearly with only a few trains a day, probably working on a "One engine in steam" principle, only one line was needed, so the other was ripped up.

 

[30907]

I've not heard of a 2 year rule, and I am sure there are plenty of cases to the contrary. So I wonder if the Loop was a special case?

As Andy873 says, ordinary goods traffic ceased at Great Harwood at the same time as one track was lifted. According the the L&YSoc booklet, Padiham remained open for coal until 1968, but that is after the redt of the line was lifted.

Great Harwood Junction box presumably closed with the loop, so the Up line wouldn't have been usable as a diversionary route. However, I wonder - pure guesswork this - if there was some thought initially of serving Padiham Power Station from the west to avoid the steep gradient at Rose Grove (and the reversal there, if Lancashire coal was used)?

 

[Andy873]

My theory was that the Up line from Rose Grove was kept for that reason, to serve Padiham power station with coal, which was down the steep gradient - and so easier to use in that direction.

The signal boxes closed 2nd Nov 1964 (same time as the line) but I have seen videos of closed lines (with signals set to Stop / Caution) being used.

Any one remember closed lines still having traffic?

 

[njamescouk]

I remember the tracks of the Derwent Valley Railway being pulled up sleepers and all. they used an 0-6-0 diesel shunter plus rail mounted crane. this would have been somewhere between 1963 and 1967 but can't be more definite than that

edit - the disused stations site tells us the track was lifted in 1964.

 

[John Webb]

My theory was that the Up line from Rose Grove was kept for that reason, to serve Padiham power station with coal, which was down the steep gradient - and so easier to use in that direction.

The signal boxes closed 2nd Nov 1964 (same time as the line) but I have seen videos of closed lines (with signals set to Stop / Caution) being used.

Any one remember closed lines still having traffic?

Probably one of the most unusual examples of a closed line suddenly being reused for traffic was the "Leeds Northern" line from Starbeck to Northallerton via Ripon. Closed to passengers in March 1967, the section from Starbeck to Ripon and Melmerby had been retained for a regular daily freight service, mostly for the MoD, on the "one-engine-in-steam" system. But north of Melmerby the line was not used, although the signalling equipment had not yet been dismantled.
But on the 31st of July a serious accident near Thirsk around mid-afternoon blocked the Down Slow, Down Fast and Up Fast lines on the ECML. A short train was sent out to test the down line to Northallerton and to deliver batteries and other equipment to restore the block signalling system. Down trains were then diverted from York through Starbeck and onward to Northallerton. This working continued until mid-day on August 2nd.
The last freight train ran in October 1969 and the track was lifted in 1970.

 

[Springs Branch]

I was an interested (if youthful) observer of a lot of line closures in south Lancashire in the late 1960s and into the early 70s.

One thing that struck me was the amount of effort, and presumably money, put into "tidying up" lines after rationalisation, to be followed by complete closure just a year or two later.

"Tidy" is probably not a word most would associate with the post-Beeching railway scene in industrial areas, but what I mean is this:-

1) Railway line X was formerly a busy route, but by the 1960s had seen a major decline in traffic and had become freight-only.
2) Various junction & chords to other lines and connections to sidings were officially taken out of use, together with the mechanical signalling, but initially leaving redundant points, crossings etc in place.
3) Often the double track would be singled, as this was adequate for whatever goods traffic remained.
4) Over the next year or two, PW crews would come through and remove the redundant points, crossings & sleepers on the remaining single line, replacing with plain line.
5) A year or two after this (three if you're lucky), the line would be closed completely and the whole lot was dismantled, bridges and all.

I know the cost of carrying out step (4) was probably much lower 50 years ago than today, when everything done on the railway is horrendously expensive. But it still seemed a waste since there would probably be only a handful of trains in total - most likely slow-moving, Class 25-hauled trip workings or engineers' trains - which ever used the "tidied-up" single line.

Some examples which come to mind are:

• Adlington Junction to Boars Head Jn:
  - 1967: Haigh Jn to Whelley Jn connection closed & removed.
  - 1969: down line closed, signalling removed and down track lifted.
  - 1971: remaining up line officially closed in 1971 after use for very occasional diversions.
  
  
• Standish Jn to Bamfurlong Jn (Whelley Loop):
  - 1972: closed as a double-track through route. Singled & pointwork removed at DeTrafford Jn and Platt Bridge Jn.
  - 1973: single track used for diversions on one weekend & sporadic engineers trains related to electrification.
  - 1976: officially closed & track removed.
  
  
• Bickershaw Jn to Howe Bridge West NCB Exchange Sidings:
  - 1969: through route to Tyldesley and signal boxes closed & line singled. Coal traffic from Bickershaw and Parsonage Collieries remained.
  - 1972/73: redundant trackwork at Bickershaw Jn tidied-up.
  - 1974: last train from Parsonage Colliery.
  - 1975: line officially closed.

The "two year" rule does seem to be observed more or less. In the first two cases, possibly more likely related to the progress of the WCML resignalling and electrification rather than a general BR rule-of-thumb.

 

[Andy873]

Very interesting every one.

Just jumping back to my possible theory that the North Lancs loop Up line might have been kept as a possible diversion route, this is what I do know:

Great Harwood Junction signal box (at the Blackburn entry / exit side) was only closed 23rd May 1971 and the other one at Rose Grove closed 1973.

So with both entry / exit boxes still operational at either end, one Up line with no sidings off (except at Padiham) going East to West would have been possible.

On the other hand, my Grandfather told me he had not see a train for a long time - but then again, he would have been at work most of the time.
Most people don't sit by a closed line 24/7 hoping for one to come past.

 

[Andy873]

I know when removing the last line, the rails were cut up into smaller lengths with oxy acetylene and the demolition train came down to take the rails and sleepers away.

I presume the men who cut up the rails were contractors not BR staff?

 

[Journeyman]

I know when removing the last line, the rails were cut up into smaller lengths with oxy acetylene and the demolition train came down to take the rails and sleepers away.

I presume the men who cut up the rails were contractors not BR staff?

Generally, yes. The Disused Stations website contains quite a lot of information on the Waverley Line in the immediate post-closure period, and one of the last trains to operate on a large chunk of the route was an inspection saloon, allowing contractors to prepare bids for dismantling and demolition work.

 

[70014IronDuke]

....
So from some time 1965 until late 1967 this left only the Up line, with no track off the sidings, presumably as a possible diversionary route if it where needed. ....

I remember seeing 8F (probably 48218) pulling the demolition train - to a little boy, the sight of a steam engine passing by was unforgettable.

Something tells me you must know this, but I'll mention it, just in case: I certainly remember the Padiham coal trains in July-August, 1968. Even on the last day of steam (last 'regular day', that is) Aug 3, 1968, I remember an 8F with a mineral train on the line on the Saturday morning. I went down the lane from Rose Grove and photographed it from there. I can't remember which way it was travelling, however!

Several sources tell me that in these cases of double lines, after 1 line was pulled, there was an "unofficial" 2 year wait and see period before they pulled the remaining line - is this just a myth do you think? It seems to be the case in many I have researched. ...

I suspect this was just one possible idea of what was going on, or perhaps applied to one route only, as a special condition, and somehow this has become general "fact" in some people's minds.
As others have noted, many, if not the vast majority, of routes closed to passenger traffic, saw continued freight workings for years, if not decades afterwards.

 

[Andy873]

One thing that struck me was the amount of effort, and presumably money, put into "tidying up" lines after rationalisation, to be followed by complete closure just a year or two later.

I know in February 1957 GH station was given new station signs - and by the start of March they informed the public they were closing the station to passengers (except for summer excursions).

Even on the last day of steam (last 'regular day', that is) Aug 3, 1968, I remember an 8F with a mineral train on the line on the Saturday morning.

I bet that was something fantastic to see and photograph!

Sadly, it can't have been 48218, it was "officially" withdrawn 30/9/1967 (although I know in many cases this was just a paper work exercise), and some engines were still being used. It was spotted at Rose Grove January 1968 and then at Cashmore's (in the midlands) Feb 1968.

As I've said before, I can't say 100 percent it was 48218 I saw, but there is photographic evidence of it being used for the demolition train when they were pulling the Up line.

Maybe, knowing how people work, once a crew and engine had been assigned a task like this it might have been kept the same until the line was removed?

 

[30907]

Great Harwood Junction signal box (at the Blackburn entry / exit side) was only closed 23rd May 1971 and the other one at Rose Grove closed 1973.

So with both entry / exit boxes still operational at either end, one Up line with no sidings off (except at Padiham) going East to West would have been possible.

On the other hand, my Grandfather told me he had not see a train for a long time - but then again, he would have been at work most of the time.
Most people don't sit by a closed line 24/7 hoping for one to come past.

Didn't realised GH Jn had stayed open after the Loop closure, Rose Grove obviously had to.
As to trains actually using the line West of Padiham, I can't say, but I've sat through more than one slide show in the town without picking anything up to that effect. PM to follow.

 

[Andy873]

Thanks for the PM, I have replied to it.

During 1966 and on to 1967 this is where the clues dry up, and I'm sure someone would have mentioned any movement during this time - but I can't find any.

 

[randyrippley]

So why was it called the "North Lancs" loop line?
At the time it was built, north Lancashire would have meant Cartmel and Furness, along with the area between Lancaster and Preston.
"Central Lancs" or even "East Lancs" maybe, but why north?

 

[Bevan Price]

48519 was in use on an engineering train at Rose Grove on Sunday 4 August 1968. (Have got a slide of it.)

 

[Andy873]

So why was it called the "North Lancs" loop line?
At the time it was built, north Lancashire would have meant Cartmel and Furness, along with the area between Lancaster and Preston.
"Central Lancs" or even "East Lancs" maybe, but why north?

A very good question, and one that I was surprised with when I found out about it.

Most lines were given identification names for legal purposes, if you look at the OS map from around 1910 it is actually noted as the Great Harwood loop line on the map and that was technically wrong.

It had several names, but most knew it as the gh loop line.

However, if you search the London Gazette, you will see it was officially called the North Lancashire loop line.

You probably have to go back to the 1860s to understand the name and look at the L & Y railway map to get a better idea. On the map there were two lines running north, one to Hellifield and one to Skipton, and this line being "north" of the east lancs line gives us a clue.

Also, the L & Y was mainly east / west in direction.

I know the name tripped me up early in my research.

So the best advice I can pass on to any one wanting to research a line is find out its official name by reading its history, who built it etc - and don't believe everything, many sites have it wrong about this one.

 

[30907]

So why was it called the "North Lancs" loop line?
At the time it was built, north Lancashire would have meant Cartmel and Furness, along with the area between Lancaster and Preston.
"Central Lancs" or even "East Lancs" maybe, but why north?

A couple of thoughts to add:
Wikipedia says North Lancashire was the Parliamentary constituency including the vast Hundred of Blackburn at the time, so that may be one reason.
Cartmel and Furness were way outside L&Y territory, as indeed was the Lune Valley.

 

[Andy873]

A couple of thoughts to add:
Wikipedia says North Lancashire was the Parliamentary constituency including the vast Hundred of Blackburn at the time, so that may be one reason.
Cartmel and Furness were way outside L&Y territory, as indeed was the Lune Valley.

Some goods reasons there, and ones I forgot to mention.

Just going back to closure / removal, I know in May 1964, BR had a meeting with the NUR, staff and other parties stating why they were going to close the line. They state GH station only had around 12,000 tons of coal (presumably for the year 1963) delivered, and only 2,000 for Simonstone.

They make no mention of its use by through trains.

The west side if Martholme viaduct was bought by Lancashire County Council (I think), but don't know what year that was. But an interesting fact about the viaduct is that it was listed as a grade II listed building 9th March 1984 - still belonging to BR (I guess it was done to stop BR pulling it down or so BR could apply for financial help in maintaining it?). And in 1992/3 they were trying to sell it for just one pound, with a one off payment of 70K as a sweetener - so they must have been desperate to get it off their hands.

One thing I have noticed looking at films and photos, the removal process usually involved road vehicles like tractors etc - and I came across one article in Cornwall where the tractor was left by the side of the track they were pulling - only to find its tyres had been let down!