Advice on hailing a bus.. the Uno bus way!

[jon0844]

A couple of months back at the railway station where some buses start, I nearly missed my bus because the driver didn't pull in and instead decided to drive off. He looked at me and eventually stopped in the middle of the road, and moaned about me needing to hail him and not just stand there.

Now, obviously you do that at most stops - but at the start of the route?

Okay, perhaps he had a point - even if 99% of people don't wave at drivers at the station.

Anyway, having seen some complaints to Uno from other passengers about buses no longer stopping and just driving on, I saw a Tweet that surprised me;

https://twitter.com/unobus/status/543070972337995776

Please hail all buses clearly and in good time. At night, use the light from a mobile phone to attract the driver's attention - it helps.

Using the light from your phone? The phone display or the torch function on some phones that will shine a bright LED light at the driver? And what if you don't have a phone with such a feature, or a phone at all? Just hope the driver will see you the 'old fashioned way'?

I assume other bus companies aren't giving the same advice? And any idea if this will catch on as a way to signal for trains to stop at those rural request stop stations?!

And another Tweet tells people that due to a shortage of buses (perhaps they need to stop crashing them) they have three buses on loan. They're 3 Scania buses in silver, and from a distance or even quite close up look much like coaches. They have NO branding at all, and no display boards to show the number or where they're going.

Only this morning I saw one in the dark that had the number on a bit of paper stuck to the glass. As good as invisible.

And is Twitter a good way to inform the general public that these anonymous silver/grey buses might actually be the bus they need? As against putting up notices at the bus stops served by these buses? And how can you hire in a bus that has no way to show a route number in a fashion that can be read by all - both people with good and poor vision?

We are currently operating 3 silver single deck buses on a temporary basis. Please keep a look out for them and hail clearly as normal.

https://twitter.com/unobus/status/543070033677910016

(I also liked this conversation! https://twitter.com/unobus/status/543339898833731584 )

 

[Antman]

I've never heard that one before about using lights from mobile phones although it can sometimes be difficult to see intending passengers in the dark

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've never heard that one before about using lights from mobile phones although it can sometimes be difficult to see intending passengers in the dark

I have from a few places. Using the torch is probably a bad idea, but using the screen might be a good one (the screen is never dazzlingly bright).

Neil

 

[jon0844]

The problem seems to be;

a) Will drivers come to expect to see lights and drive on if they don't? Because not everyone has a mobile, or has it to hand (or wants it to hand if standing at a bus stop late at night).. and what if the battery is dead?
b) Will passengers assume to use a normal phone display, or activate the flashlight?
c) If they do the latter above, why not then take a torch.. or a laser pen? Shine it at the driver to get their attention.

It seems a bit irresponsible to me. Far better to have drivers stop if they can't be sure, or ensure that (with the council) all bus stops are suitably lit. It's mad that some stops are unlit at all, either the shelter itself (if there is one) or a street light. I'm not talking about lights being broken, but the lack of lights at all.

Can't blame Uno for that, mind. However, Uno should be taking the initiative to get better lighting put in if they can claim it is hard to see when people want a bus.

 

[Bletchleyite]

c) If they do the latter above, why not then take a torch.. or a laser pen? Shine it at the driver to get their attention.

Using a torch has long been practice in very rural areas. Just don't shine it in the driver's face.

Neil

 

[ManUtd]

Using a torch has long been practice in very rural areas. Just don't shine it in the driver's face.

Neil

Yeah I have experienced this, especially on a dark winters morning....the torch I mean,not having it shone in my face,people would always do the circular motion movement.

 

[jon0844]

Using a torch has long been practice in very rural areas. Just don't shine it in the driver's face.

Uno might want to say that quite clearly, given a sizeable number of passengers are students from the University who might think it rather a lot of fun to do just that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Uno might want to say that quite clearly, given a sizeable number of passengers are students from the University who might think it rather a lot of fun to do just that.

They might well learn when the driver refuses them access to the bus for having done it.

Neil

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Uno might want to say that quite clearly, given a sizeable number of passengers are students from the University who might think it rather a lot of fun to do just that.

Don't UNO operate a lot of tendered services for Herts CC ? What do they make of all this ?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Seems to me that Unobus have some sort of problem. Perhaps they need to better train and then better monitor / manage their staff?

The driver should know the route, where all the stops are, and therefore where passengers may signal them wishing to board. They should be driving within their stopping distance anyway so should have no difficulty in stopping so long as the passenger does make some kind of effort to attract his attention in good time.

If it is dark, the driver should anticipate passengers being less visible than during the day and make appropriate adjustments to his driving.

Personally I have worn a high visibility vest when catching a bus in winter where there is no street lighting. Then there is no light shining in the drivers eyes merely the reflection from the bus headlights.

Reflective 'slap straps' around your arm should also do the trick, as, when you wave your arm the driver should see the movement.

If boarding at the start of the route, surely the bus should pull onto the stand prior to it's official departure time in order to allow passengers to board and thus allow an on-time departure? If the bus a parked in a layover area, with no destination or 'not in service' on the blind how are you supposed to know that it is your bus and you need to attract the drivers attention? If you walk out onto the bus park and start asking questions of the driver you are unlikely to receive a positive repsone in return. 'Its my mealbreak' or' wait over there at the stop' or similar is my experience.

Typical really of the slipshod way much of the bus industry now seems to operate. It's as though customers are an inconvenience!

 

[causton]

Arriva drivers have been saying it as well around here. Good advice if followed properly without endangering the driver's vision!

 

[Deerfold]

And another Tweet tells people that due to a shortage of buses (perhaps they need to stop crashing them) they have three buses on loan. They're 3 Scania buses in silver, and from a distance or even quite close up look much like coaches. They have NO branding at all, and no display boards to show the number or where they're going.

Only this morning I saw one in the dark that had the number on a bit of paper stuck to the glass. As good as invisible.

And is Twitter a good way to inform the general public that these anonymous silver/grey buses might actually be the bus they need? As against putting up notices at the bus stops served by these buses? And how can you hire in a bus that has no way to show a route number in a fashion that can be read by all - both people with good and poor vision?

Have you raised this with the Traffic Commissioner? They tend not to be impressed with buses that passengers can't recognise. Certainly if it's a regular thing.

 

[Wolfie]

They might well learn when the driver refuses them access to the bus for having done it.

Neil

BUT they will have followed the company's guidance and thus can (and will) complain long and loud... (I suspect Uno would have zero legitimate defence!)...

 

[Tom B]

Seems to me that Unobus have some sort of problem. Perhaps they need to better train and then better monitor / manage their staff?

The driver should know the route, where all the stops are, and therefore where passengers may signal them wishing to board. They should be driving within their stopping distance anyway so should have no difficulty in stopping so long as the passenger does make some kind of effort to attract his attention in good time.

If it is dark, the driver should anticipate passengers being less visible than during the day and make appropriate adjustments to his driving.

Personally I have worn a high visibility vest when catching a bus in winter where there is no street lighting. Then there is no light shining in the drivers eyes merely the reflection from the bus headlights.

Reflective 'slap straps' around your arm should also do the trick, as, when you wave your arm the driver should see the movement.

If boarding at the start of the route, surely the bus should pull onto the stand prior to it's official departure time in order to allow passengers to board and thus allow an on-time departure? If the bus a parked in a layover area, with no destination or 'not in service' on the blind how are you supposed to know that it is your bus and you need to attract the drivers attention? If you walk out onto the bus park and start asking questions of the driver you are unlikely to receive a positive repsone in return. 'Its my mealbreak' or' wait over there at the stop' or similar is my experience.

Typical really of the slipshod way much of the bus industry now seems to operate. It's as though customers are an inconvenience!

Quite - a bus driver ought to know his route, and thus if a stop is unlit slow for its approach to ensure no passengers are there. However, I know that many companies are lackadaisical with such matters and will not care if a passenger is left behind!

(I once asked an Inspector if perhaps somebody could look at a particular hourly route where, due to poor staff training or wanting to get home early, a section was often missed. I suggested that an inspector could be sent along to catch the bus one day and thus provide proof that drivers were not following the route. He replied that they wouldn't do that, as the member of staff would end up stranded for an hour if the bus didn't turn up!!!).

 

[ManUtd]

The driver should know the route, where all the stops are, and therefore where passengers may signal them wishing to board. They should be driving within their stopping distance anyway so should have no difficulty in stopping so long as the passenger does make some kind of effort to attract his attention in good time.

If it is dark, the driver should anticipate passengers being less visible than during the day and make appropriate adjustments to his driving.

Quite - a bus driver ought to know his route, and thus if a stop is unlit slow for its approach to ensure no passengers are there. However, I know that many companies are lackadaisical with such matters and will not care if a passenger is left behind!

I am a bus driver and I do know my routes but what I would say in response to that is that the duties are not scheduled to be slowing down at every hole in the hedge just in case someone might be there....it's just not practical at times

I wouldn't be doing these routes on a weekly basis,that would be more helpful but instead there might be a couple of months in between and some of the passengers wouldn't use the service on a regular basis so that makes it a little harder to know where to be expecting someone.

In the rural areas I have driven,a lot of the times there are no actual bus stops and it is common place for people to stand at the bottom of their drive way and the bus will stop at these random places to pick the customers up,it's not a problem.....unless it's pitch black and it is very hard to see.....for me the simple solution to this is a torch or as mentioned,a hi-viz vest,something like that and the problem is solved.....HELP US TO HELP YOU.

 

[johnnychips]

Bloke today at Cat and Fiddle between Macclesfield and Buxton hailed the driver with mobile torch and wearing a high-vis, which he took off after he got on. Driver not in least fazed by it.

 

[ManUtd]

Bloke today at Cat and Fiddle between Macclesfield and Buxton hailed the driver with mobile torch and wearing a high-vis, which he took off after he got on. Driver not in least fazed by it.

Perfect,it comes down to common sense for me.....if your standing in the middle of nowhere in the pitch dark and you want to catch a bus,at least make yourself visible for the driver...and you know what,he/she will stop and you will be on your way.....simples.

 

[90019]

They should be driving within their stopping distance anyway so should have no difficulty in stopping so long as the passenger does make some kind of effort to attract his attention in good time.

And therein lies the problem.
There are some people out there who expect you to know that they want your bus, without giving you any clues whatsoever that they do.
I'm a bus driver, not a mind reader.

As the old saying goes; no sticky handy out, no catchy bus.



You don't have to actually put your hand out, though it is the best way, just make it obvious that you're wanting the bus - move from inside the shelter to the kerb as the bus approaches, for example. It isn't about the driver not being able to do their job; it's about making life that little bit simpler - making it obvious that you want this bus, rather than having to slow down and try to figure out from body language whether or not you actually want this one or not.

Mind you, there are also those who stand right on the kerb at the stop, watching you approach, as if they want the bus, and when you stop and open the doors, they stand there and look at you as if you're a moron. :roll:

 

[Busaholic]

And therein lies the problem.
There are some people out there who expect you to know that they want your bus, without giving you any clues whatsoever that they do.
I'm a bus driver, not a mind reader.

As the old saying goes; no sticky handy out, no catchy bus.



You don't have to actually put your hand out, though it is the best way, just make it obvious that you're wanting the bus - move from inside the shelter to the kerb as the bus approaches, for example. It isn't about the driver not being able to do their job; it's about making life that little bit simpler - making it obvious that you want this bus, rather than having to slow down and try to figure out from body language whether or not you actually want this one or not.

Mind you, there are also those who stand right on the kerb at the stop, watching you approach, as if they want the bus, and when you stop and open the doors, they stand there and look at you as if you're a moron. :roll:

I accept all you say, but would add something from the passenger perspective. If there is more than one route from the stop, or even more than one stop and the bus approaching may not be stopping at the stop where you are, it may be necessary to ascertain the route number. I've always had excellent sight so even at age 66 can see well in advance, but many passengers can't, or, if two buses are approaching together would not be able to see the number of the second one. Allied to poor blind provision on many buses, especially in the electronic age, and some drivers refusing to turn the lights on for the blinds when it is getting dark and, in some cases, pitch black, of course people are peering out. Actually, the Traffic Commissioners, when they have nothing better to do should sporadically send their people out after dark to report on drivers not switching blind lights on and have a purge, with repeat offenders brought to book. It costs almost nothing and maked a deal of difference.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As the old saying goes; no sticky handy out, no catchy bus.

In cities at busy stops I prefer the German approach, which is that the bus must stop and open its doors unless the driver is ABSOLUTELY sure there is no passenger waiting at the stop wanting that[1] bus. That usually means the bus will stop if there is a person at the stop, unless they gesture to wave it through.

The "stick your hand out" approach is often impractical at a busy city centre stop where buses are overtaking each other at the stop.

[1] That specific one, not that route. It is far too common for a bus driver on a following bus to see one in the stop with the same number and go sailing past, not considering that it might be a short working, or almost full, or any one of a number of reasons why that one should also stop.

Neil

 

[jon0844]

You should stick your hand out. Most people do. Now we're told to use a light, and some say wear bright clothing.

Meanwhile Uno run buses regularly with only the number on a bit of paper stuck to the windscreen or laying on the dash.

Anyone see a problem here? That is unless you shine a light at every bus and ask the driver what service it is.

 

[Tom B]

In cities at busy stops I prefer the German approach, which is that the bus must stop and open its doors unless the driver is ABSOLUTELY sure there is no passenger waiting at the stop wanting that[1] bus. That usually means the bus will stop if there is a person at the stop, unless they gesture to wave it through.

The "stick your hand out" approach is often impractical at a busy city centre stop where buses are overtaking each other at the stop.

[1] That specific one, not that route. It is far too common for a bus driver on a following bus to see one in the stop with the same number and go sailing past, not considering that it might be a short working, or almost full, or any one of a number of reasons why that one should also stop.

Neil

Lothian adopt this practice in Edinburgh, buses WILL NOT overtake at stops unless there is nobody waiting or it is the same service to the same destination (the provision of rear destination screens helping here).

On the contrary of you are at a stop and don't want on it is helpful to wave the driver past to save everyone time!

 

[ManUtd]

In cities at busy stops I prefer the German approach, which is that the bus must stop and open its doors unless the driver is ABSOLUTELY sure there is no passenger waiting at the stop wanting that[1] bus. That usually means the bus will stop if there is a person at the stop, unless they gesture to wave it through.

The "stick your hand out" approach is often impractical at a busy city centre stop where buses are overtaking each other at the stop.

[1] That specific one, not that route. It is far too common for a bus driver on a following bus to see one in the stop with the same number and go sailing past, not considering that it might be a short working, or almost full, or any one of a number of reasons why that one should also stop.

Neil

When I am in a busy city and there is clear view of the stop,the hand out/get off your seat approach is the way I work,I will stop.

If there is a bus already at the stop,I pull up along side waiting slightly to see if anyone want's my bus,generally just behind the other bus but to it's right where I can move off again,that is safer than stopping in front and passengers trying to cross in front of the parked bus that now is ready for pulling away.

I used to stop at every stop and open the door and people did just look at me and I had to move on,it's a waste of time....it's all part of the problem,the roads are getting busier and people are getting lazier.....I would stop every 100 yards if I thought someone actually wanted by bus but that's not the case.

This is what leads to complaints,I see a person at a stop,they are texting on their phone,I slow down,I wait for movement and nothing so I accelerate and then as I am parallel with them they jump up expecting me to stop a forty foot bus(possibly with standing passengers/maybe a buggy) all of a sudden and try and squeeze it into a thirty foot gap left because cars are parked in my stop while cars are impatient behind me and are overtaking me on a busy pedestrian street......yeah right!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I used to stop at every stop and open the door and people did just look at me and I had to move on,it's a waste of time...

Where, out of interest, do you drive buses? In London, you *are* required to stop at any stop where there is a passenger waiting.

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Lothian adopt this practice in Edinburgh, buses WILL NOT overtake at stops unless there is nobody waiting or it is the same service to the same destination (the provision of rear destination screens helping here).

Another one of the many things Lothian get right!

Neil

 

[Abpj17]

Where, out of interest, do you drive buses? In London, you *are* required to stop at any stop where there is a passenger waiting.

lmao, that completely isn't my experience though - it's common for drivers to sail straight past a stop with passengers waiting (and trying hard to be noticed)

One of the worst stops I've encountered is the one on Ludgate Hill going towards St Pauls

 

[ManUtd]

Where, out of interest, do you drive buses? In London, you *are* required to stop at any stop where there is a passenger waiting.

Northern Ireland for Translink,Ulsterbus.
The problem is that our sister side,Metro with their pink buses cover the city....this is where confusion begins.
Any UB service entering Belfast with a service number in the 500's can pick up everywhere and will take all customers into the city...even with a Metro day ticket(purchased from a Metro bus)

Now an UB service not in the 500's will not,so after the outskirts of the city he will only then drop off the passengers he has on board in the city limits and not pick up......to add even more confusion,on the way out of the city,the 500 series will stop at every stop whereas the other service numbers have a first setting down point outside the city limits.....I hope that is clear....not great for a tourist I know.

So some people see a blue bus and pay little attention as they are not sure if they can board or not,sometimes I have a passenger getting off and someone then say's to me "Can I get on?" I try to explain to them which seem's a waste of time.....I now just say,if you aren't sure just stick your hand out in good time.

 

[90019]

Allied to poor blind provision on many buses, especially in the electronic age, and some drivers refusing to turn the lights on for the blinds when it is getting dark and, in some cases, pitch black, of course people are peering out.

Almost every bus I've driven the blinds aren't on a seperate switch but are either on the same switch as the headlights or interior lights.

In cities at busy stops I prefer the German approach, which is that the bus must stop and open its doors unless the driver is ABSOLUTELY sure there is no passenger waiting at the stop wanting that[1] bus. That usually means the bus will stop if there is a person at the stop, unless they gesture to wave it through.

The problem there for me is that the timetable simply doesn't allow the time to do that.
I'll slow down for stops so people can see what bus I'm driving, and I'll stop if someone gives me some sort of clue that they want my bus, but if they all just stand back on the pavement without moving then I won't stop.

 

[Bletchleyite]

lmao, that completely isn't my experience though - it's common for drivers to sail straight past a stop with passengers waiting (and trying hard to be noticed)

I'm surprised TfL aren't stamping on this. They are usually good at running a tight ship.

Neil

 

[ManUtd]

Almost every bus I've driven the blinds aren't on a seperate switch but are either on the same switch as the headlights or interior lights.



The problem there for me is that the timetable simply doesn't allow the time to do that.
I'll slow down for stops so people can see what bus I'm driving, and I'll stop if someone gives me some sort of clue that they want my bus, but if they all just stand back on the pavement without moving then I won't stop.

Bingo!

I don't get why it's so hard for people to understand.....even if you are unsure,stick your hand out...what's the worst that can happen?the bus drives on,well that's going to happen if you don't stick your hand out so.....

 

[Busaholic]

lmao, that completely isn't my experience though - it's common for drivers to sail straight past a stop with passengers waiting (and trying hard to be noticed)

One of the worst stops I've encountered is the one on Ludgate Hill going towards St Pauls

The very worst stop in my experience is the one in Aldwych where every single bus route going over Waterloo Bridge stops: about a dozen routes, half of which terminate at Waterloo but all the others go considerably further. It is not uncommon even in the evening for five buses to turn up one behind the other and, if nobody is getting off, they go sailing past, bound for Greenwich or Norwood, where I want to go, then it can be another 15 or 20 minutes before the route appears again. Of course, I could go to Waterloo and change, but why should I? If I was on Oyster that would cost me double the fare too.

The problem in old London Transport days, with longer routes and more than one garage servicing a lot of routes, was the opposite. On the 207, for example, a bus allocated to Uxbridge Garage would start from Uxbridge bound for Shepherds Bush Green and, when it got to Hayes End, would meet two other Hanwell-allocated buses on layover, also bound for Shepherds Bush on short workings of the same route, one of which would immediately leave the lay-by and tag along behind the Uxbridge one and stay behind all the way, often to be joined by the second 'short' or one that joined in from Southall,Delamere Road. The worst routes for 'bunching' were the 11 and 25, as much to do with rivalry between garages as traffic conditions, and seven in a row of 11s proceeding up Whitehall was an occurence I saw several times.