Amsterdam to Berlin - During the Cold War?

[HarryF]

I took an Amsterdam to Berlin train today. It got me thinking, did such a service run during the period when Germany was divided? How did trains crossing the inner German border work?

 

[StephenHunter]

I took an Amsterdam to Berlin train today. It got me thinking, did such a service run during the period when Germany was divided? How did trains crossing the inner German border work?

It most certainly did run during the division of Germany; in fact there was a through sleeper from Hook of Holland to Moscow from 1960 onwards.

There were Interzonal trains that ran between West and East Germany and the Transit trains that ran between West Germany and West Berlin, the latter often with through carriages for other destinations.

The latter ran via Magdeburg i.e. not the high-speed route. Locomotives were exchanged at the West German border station of Helmstedt; both railways were using steam into the 1970s. There were border controls there at Marienborn in East Germany and the Border Troops showed no hesitation in waking up sleeping car passengers at 2am to check their papers, as transit visas were needed, although you could buy these on the train I believe. They would also thoroughly search the train in both directions for contraband things - or escapees.

The old Thomas Cook Timetables cover the schedules - and also contain the advice that flying to West Berlin was the better option.

 

[Beebman]

In April 1977 I travelled with my parents from Hoek van Holland to Berlin Zoo with an stopover en route at Minden (Westf) where a relative was living at the time. The second train was D243 from Paris Nord to Warszawa Wsch for which I still have a copy of the 'Ihr Zugbegleiter' itinerary leaflet and I scanned it in this post in an earlier thread on the subject of transit trains across East Germany. I can confirm that transit visas were bought on the train. There was a change of loco at Helmstedt from a DB electric to a DR diesel which hauled the train through to West Berlin. (ISTR the DB loco on that train was a 103 even though it wasn't an IC/TEE - the DR diesel was definitely a 132.)

 

[Track2012]

In December, 1971, I was doing research in Berlin and wanted to fly home (New York) for Christmas. Air fares were expensive, so I booked a berth from West Berlin to Amersfoort on the Moscow-Hoek van Holland sleeper (bookings for portions of the route were possible). I then flew on a cheap KLM fare to New York. What served as visas were billed by the border-control officers on the train (was it for DM10?) and simple entry/exit stamps printed in the passport. It was the same procedure as had been practiced for a decade. Engine change in Helmstedt, IIRC, was from a DR 01 to a DB V200.

 

[dutchflyer]

In those years trains were the main means of transport as flying was only for the elite and very expensive, and also much more hindered with accidents etc as it is now. Thus there were long D-trains, main source was German-German and in fact normal-there was an EEC but no EU with Schengen=no borderchecks yet- border checks would take place. There were special arrangements for the DDR-imposed money catcher ´transit´ visum, cost 5 DEM, for Germans. Others had to pay. These were called ´INterzonen zug´ ran as non-stop (no commercial stops) transit direct to Berlin-and all via the Stadtbahn into/via Friedrichstrasse again into East Berlin.
There were also, much less, trains serving directly from west into east-Germany.

 

[Peterthegreat]

If I remember correctly the 5DM fee for transiting the DDR to West Berlin was paid for by the West German government. A further fee was payable by the passenger if travelling onwards to Poland.

 

[Vespa]

I travelled to Berlin on a sleeper from Amsterdam in 1989 just as the wall opened up, there were still border checks by the GDR Grenztruppen, they didn't demand a visa money only to check the passports, the compartments were split into destinations, the front went to Moscow, the one behind went to Warsaw and our to East Begin and finally West Berlin, from memory the Moscow carriage was sealed so you couldn't enter from the carriage.

I was lucky to see East Germany before it disappeared, a very unique place with its own culture and transport structure including the tram system which the West abandoned.

 

[The exile]

Rail, water, road and air corridors between West Germany and West Berlin were “guaranteed” by post war agreements. IIRC even the 1948 Berlin Blockade stuck to the spirit of that agreement in the sense that the claim was that all the various corridors needed urgent maintenance- leaving only the air corridors available. These were restricted to the air forces and national civil airlines of the 3 western occupying nations. Until 1961, West Berlin remained open - after that, East German commuters from places like Potsdam and Teltow had to spend ages on “satellite trains” which skirted Berlin so as to arrive from the East.

 

[StarCrossing]

I highly recommend reading the whole thread from 2019 that's linked to in post #3. There are some fascinating posts.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

I travelled from Hamburg to West Berlin in June 1987; the border stations being Büchen (BRD) and Schwanheide (DDR). At the actual border there were a set of gates across the tracks and a 'holding pen' behind them on the DDR side with a further set of gates at the far end. The DB loco was detached in Büchen station and the train propelled across the border by a DB shunter. The shunter then returned west, the border gates closed and the far gates then opened to allow the DR loco to be attached and the train to proceed. Passport checks and customs examinations were conducted en-route. At the West Berlin border there was a similar 'double-lock' arrangement but the DR loco worked through to Zoo (where I alighted) and Friedrichstrasse. It was all grimly fascinating with armed guards everywhere, even at intermediate stations as we passed through. At Wittenberge there was a further loco change - I was strongly discouraged from descending to the platform to observe operations!

 

[HarryF]

I highly recommend reading the whole thread from 2019 that's linked to in post #3. There are some fascinating posts.

I have indeed, fascinating thread.

The one thing that strikes me is how cumbersome a journey would have been with all the locomotive changes and passport checks.

 

[yeti]

I travelled from Poznan to Berlin in 1984 in a Belgium railway carriage. The train was the Moscow to Hook of Holland service. You could get a cup of tea from the samovar in the Russian coach next door. My compartment was full of western Europeans returning from an archaeological conference at Poznan University. There was a very long wait and thorough search leaving Poland but crossing the wall in Berlin seemed a doddle. Someone earlier commented on East Germany. It looked a very pleasant place from the train window.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Until towards the end of the DDR, all trains from the west were routed via Potsdam and the border crossing into West Berlin just beyond at Griebnitzsee.
The train's DDR crew was replaced at that point by West Berlin-based DR crew for the run via Zoo to Friedrichstrasse.
In 1979 I remember the DR crews' IDs were immediately checked on the platform by the armed border guards, the whole process being greeted by loud whistles from the passengers...
In the later years I think the Spandau border crossing was opened for trains from Hamburg, avoiding the long detour via Potsdam.
Despite much re-integration of the original networks, and massive new development, there is still a legacy of odd routeings into Berlin, notably from the Dresden direction.

 

[CS2447]

I took an Amsterdam to Berlin train today. It got me thinking, did such a service run during the period when Germany was divided? How did trains crossing the inner German border work?

I went on the military train run by Royal Corps Of Transport from Braunschweig 3 times , it terminated at Charlottenberg
all the info on this link https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/r...er' train was run,(BAOR) had its headquarters.

 

[nwales58]

Slight tangent, although the transit trains used Marienborn I think interzonal trains ran via Oebisfelde. I went to the Halle/Leipzig area a few times in the late 60s and early 70s, from Hoek van Holland we changed at Hannover. I now assume that Oebisfelde was a Grenzübergangsstelle and Marienborn only for transit, or did any interzonals use Marienborn?

 

[Beebman]

I went on the military train run by Royal Corps Of Transport from Braunschweig 3 times , it terminated at Charlottenberg
all the info on this link https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/rightlines-article/the-berliner-train.html#:~:text=The 'Berliner' train was run,(BAOR) had its headquarters.

Former British soldier Andy McLoone who served in West Berlin in the 1980s has made a video about the train:

Synopsis:

In this video documentary I tell the story of the Historic British Military Train, Berlin. And retrace its Cold War route through present day Germany, 3 decades after German Reunification, the end of The Cold War, and the train ceasing service. The British Military Train Berlin, nicknamed "The Berliner", was a Military Duty Transport Train that ran once a day from West Berlin to the City of Braunschweig in West Germany, and back again between 1945 and 1991 carrying military personnel, their families and designated British Civilians. The British Military Train passed twice through the heavily fortified Inner German Border and Berlin Wall , and was subject to military checks by the Soviet Army, before spending 4 hours travelling through East Germany, often under surveillance from the East German Stasi. The DDR with its huge Soviet Military occupation forces, was technically "Enemy Territory" during the Cold War 1945 - 1989 On board, its 180 military and civilian passengers, who were locked in the train for their own safety and protected by armed British soldiers enjoyed a luxurious experince with Fine Dining and subsidized wines, provided by the Compagnie Internationale des Wagons-Lits, who also catered the famous Orient Express. The BMT owed its existence to a binding treaty drawn up in 1945 at the end of WW2 between the Soviets and The Western allies at the Potsdam Conference; to allow military access to Allied controlled West Berlin. From the late 1950s onwards as The Cold War intensified, the Soviet forces in East Germany and the puppet communist DDR Government found it diplomatically impossible to stop the train running, so instead they tried making its passage as difficult as possible. Only after the fall of the Berlin Wall in November 1989, and withdrawal of the Soviet Army from Germany in 1991, did it bring an end to the trains purpose, although it continued to run until 1991. Today The Berliner is remembered as a unique part of British Military History. CHAPTERS: 01:48 Background 04:50 Braunschweig, West Germany 09:28 Helmstedt, West Germany 15:32 Marienborn, East Germany 24:27 Magdeburg, East Germany 26:45 Potsdam, East Germany 27:37 Griebnitzsee, East Germany 31:20 Berlin- Charlottenburg, West Berlin

 

[Peterthegreat]

Slight tangent, although the transit trains used Marienborn I think interzonal trains ran via Oebisfelde. I went to the Halle/Leipzig area a few times in the late 60s and early 70s, from Hoek van Holland we changed at Hannover. I now assume that Oebisfelde was a Grenzübergangsstelle and Marienborn only for transit, or did any interzonals use Marienborn?

I believe you are correct.

 

[Track2012]

I rode the British military train Berlin-Charlottenburg to Braunschweig in 1984 (with a reserved first-class Abteil in a D-Zug for passengers continuing on to Hanover) and the American one Frankfurt to Berin-Zehlendorf-West in 1986. The British train ran by day with a nice dining car supplied by NAAFI and operated by the CIWL. The overnight American train had couchettes and no diner. We were assigned to compartments with fellow travelers of equivalent rank. Both trains had armed military policemen patrolling the corridors while passing through the DDR. As an American diplomat I had access to the trains, just as the military did. We all had first to obtain military travel orders, which took some time. I don't know whether the Soviets were informed of our personal details beforehand. In the Potsdam yards the trains were shunted onto an isolated track, and the whole procedure of presenting papers, etc. was carried out first on the platform and then in a small booth, with all the officers marching around stiffly and decked out in fancy uniforms. It was quite a theatrical performance, complete with dogs sniffing around outside the fenced-off track but with only Soviets in control of the operation. The French had a military train too, running from Berlin-Tegel to Strasbourg, I think only once a week.

 

[Cloud Strife]

If I remember correctly the 5DM fee for transiting the DDR to West Berlin was paid for by the West German government. A further fee was payable by the passenger if travelling onwards to Poland.

Yes, the transit visas were issued free of charge for West Germans and West Berliners, as they were covered by the West German government. Onwards travel to Poland required a transit visa issued in West Berlin, but I believe there was some kind of simplified process for this if the passenger was travelling on a direct East Berlin-Poland train.

Until 1961, West Berlin remained open - after that, East German commuters from places like Potsdam and Teltow had to spend ages on “satellite trains” which skirted Berlin so as to arrive from the East.

Such commuter traffic all but ended with the Wall. There might have still been a handful of people allowed to do so, but one of the strong reasons for building the Wall was to end such practices. East Berlin, in their defence, did have a terrible problem with West Germans/West Berliners living in East Berlin and taking advantage of subsidised accommodation, food and entertainment while earning in the West.

There were controls between West and East Berlin before 1961, but it was simply impossible to monitor every crossing point. Even if you were caught going from West Berlin to East Berlin as a West Berliner, the punishment was normally a nominal fine. East Berliners/East Germans on the other hand were usually punished more severely.

 

[StephenHunter]

This reminds me of the most interesting feature I've seen on a carriage. At a Dutch heritage line, they had a Mitropa i.e. East Germany sleeping car for staff accommodation - with what looked rather like a doorbell.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

Apropos the military trains while it is totally true that the guards in East Germany were their to stop people getting on there was also some care taken to make sure Allied troops and diplomats didn’t get off.

 

[The exile]

Such commuter traffic all but ended with the Wall. There might have still been a handful of people allowed to do so, but one of the strong reasons for building the Wall was to end such practices. East Berlin, in their defence, did have a terrible problem with West Germans/West Berliners living in East Berlin and taking advantage of subsidised accommodation, food and entertainment while earning in the West.

I was referring to people travelling from places like Potsdam and Teltow to East Berlin. For them, the Sputnikzuege ran until 1989 and presumably a while beyond in some cases. As mentioned above, the Dresdner Bahn direct line into Berlin is still awaiting reconnection after 33 years.

 

[Taunton]

In those years trains were the main means of transport as flying was only for the elite and very expensive, and also much more hindered with accidents etc as it is now.

That actually was not the case for flights from West Germany to West Berlin, these received a subsidy from the West German government, right up to 1991. The complexity of the Allied Four-Power Agreement meant that German airlines could not run them, and there was a notably frequent service by British Airways and Pan American, with dedicated aircraft, from the various West German cities to West Berlin. I don't recall a single accident on these flights.

Also, contrary to much belief, there were more trains and travel to and fro across the various borders than is sometimes described. The DDR border guards were a considerable employment group who oversaw these. It was a considerable bureaucratic complexity, and also varied over time so single statements of what was possible, or not, may be correct only for a period.

 

[BahrainLad]

That actually was not the case for flights from West Germany to West Berlin, these received a subsidy from the West German government, right up to 1991. The complexity of the Allied Four-Power Agreement meant that German airlines could not run them, and there was a notably frequent service by British Airways and Pan American, with dedicated aircraft, from the various West German cities to West Berlin. I don't recall a single accident on these flights.

Lockheed Tristar demonstrator landing at Tempelhof, which must've been 'sporting' to say the least. BEA had ordered a bunch for high density European routes (no open skies in those days and intra-European services, including frequencies and overall seating capacity were tightly controlled between the governments and state-owned airlines of each country). However by the time the L-1011 was delivered, to the newly formed merged British Airways, the idea of using them within Europe had been scrapped.