Any buses with decent ride quality?

[petrolhead746]

Just interested to ask this question? I currently travel daily on Stagecoach Gold, Alexander Dennis Scanias. I'm not sure of the exact model number but I have noticed the ride quality is abysmal! These are supposed to be 'state of the art vehicles.' To encourage us to leave our cars at home. Quite frankly I'd rather go in an old Fiesta or cycle! They smash and crash over the smallest imperfections in the road. I don't remember them being anywhere near as bad as they are at the moment. For me, when even a basic Kia city car can have decent suspension it's just not acceptable. It doesn't seem unique to big vehicles. The National Express Caetano Lavente had a perfectly acceptable ride. It spoils what are otherwise nice vehicles with comfortable seats and quiet engines. I have to say. I don't like ADL in general. I always find them noisy rattly things unless they have Scania engines. What is your least favourite or favourite bus?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's harder to do a good ride in a low floor bus than a high floor coach, as you've got less scope for suspension movement without whacking the road. However, I find the Mercedes Citaro to give a good quality ride, and almost no recent UK-built bus to do so. I think the pressure towards very small wheels to increase capacity while remaining low-floor may pose part of the issue.

On the other hand, rattling, crashing and banging is also caused by a weak, easily distorted body, and is remedied by way of double-glazed windows, something UK operators are also unwilling to pay for by and large (though First Manchester had some Wrights with double glazed windows in the early 2000s, and they were very good).

 

[computerSaysNo]

I find ADL E400s on Volvo chassis (plural) to give a good ride. Yes there are some bangs and rattles from the body but overall the suspension seems fairly soft and you don't end up feeling every bump in the road. That's with either a B5TL or a B8L chassis.

 

[fgwrich]

On the other hand, rattling, crashing and banging is also caused by a weak, easily distorted body, and is remedied by way of double-glazed windows, something UK operators are also unwilling to pay for by and large (though First Manchester had some Wrights with double glazed windows in the early 2000s, and they were very good).

On that front, how the mighty have fallen. The Wrightbus stuff from the early 2000s right up to the birth of the Streetlite rode rather well, was built rather well and lasted well too. Now they've become some of the worst out there - the streetlite and street deck being one of them (rattle, rattle, vibrate, rattle).

On the other hand, I rather like the ADL Enviro 300s we have here in Hampshire - they seem almost bombproof and seem to take some of Hampshires roughest roads reasonably well. Likewise for their replacement long length E200 MMCs.

 

[WY Bus Spotter]

Just interested to ask this question? I currently travel daily on Stagecoach Gold, Alexander Dennis Scanias. I'm not sure of the exact model number but I have noticed the ride quality is abysmal! These are supposed to be 'state of the art vehicles.' To encourage us to leave our cars at home. Quite frankly I'd rather go in an old Fiesta or cycle! They smash and crash over the smallest imperfections in the road. I don't remember them being anywhere near as bad as they are at the moment. For me, when even a basic Kia city car can have decent suspension it's just not acceptable. It doesn't seem unique to big vehicles. The National Express Caetano Lavente had a perfectly acceptable ride. It spoils what are otherwise nice vehicles with comfortable seats and quiet engines. I have to say. I don't like ADL in general. I always find them noisy rattly things unless they have Scania engines. What is your least favourite or favourite bus?

I've always thought ADL product were terriblw for ride quality. I think the best vehicle you'll get nowadays is a Volvo B9TL/ Wright Gemini. They are like night and day compared to an Enviro.

 

[JD2168]

The Volvo B9TL Wright Gemini has the best ride quality of the current vehicles, ADL chassis are quite poor over speed humps whilst Scania chassis tends to pick up every bump in the road. Streetdecks tend to pick up a number of bumps & are not as good over speed humps as a B9TL.

On the Singles the Volvo B7RLE tends to ride quite well whilst the ADL versions are similar to the doubles. Streetlites are quite poor on ride quality.

 

[Jordan Adam]

In terms of low floor buses I find Citaros, Enviro500s and ex-Dublin B7TL/ALX400s to be the best.

I've always thought ADL product were terriblw for ride quality. I think the best vehicle you'll get nowadays is a Volvo B9TL/ Wright Gemini. They are like night and day compared to an Enviro.

Every time I've been on a long journey on a Enviro300 (usually a Stagecoach Bluebird example) I've come off with a sore back. They seem to pick up every bump and because they're so lightweight with small wheels at speed they get thrown about too much if there's a gust of wind or a change in road angle.

They're by no means the worst but I find the B9TL Geminis to be not that great in terms of ride. When sat upstairs near the front they feel very unsettled and you get thrown about quite a bit, all two axle deckers are bad for this but I find the First spec B9TLs with their short wheelbase to particularly stand out.

 

[petrolhead746]

I've always thought ADL product were terriblw for ride quality. I think the best vehicle you'll get nowadays is a Volvo B9TL/ Wright Gemini. They are like night and day compared to an Enviro.

I'll try one for research purposes we do have them in Preston!

On that front, how the mighty have fallen. The Wrightbus stuff from the early 2000s right up to the birth of the Streetlite rode rather well, was built rather well and lasted well too. Now they've become some of the worst out there - the streetlite and street deck being one of them (rattle, rattle, vibrate, rattle).

On the other hand, I rather like the ADL Enviro 300s we have here in Hampshire - they seem almost bombproof and seem to take some of Hampshires roughest roads reasonably well. Likewise for their replacement long length E200 MMCs.

Which ones were they. I grew up near Manchester so spent a lot of time there. The First Manchester B7RLEs were some of my favourite buses. They sounded great with the ZF. B9TLs I liked when they came out. I think I remember the earlier Wright buses you mean. The older Volvo ones?

 

[Strathclyder]

MCV Evolution-bodied Volvo B8RLEs, in this case the 3 65-plate examples that currently run out of West Coast Motors' South Street depot in Scotstoun and are regulars on one of my local routes (the busy 17 between Duntocher & Glasgow via Bearsden & Maryhill) are rather comfortable, leauges ahead of the collection of E200s used on the same service.

On that front, how the mighty have fallen. The Wrightbus stuff from the early 2000s right up to the birth of the Streetlite rode rather well, was built rather well and lasted well too. Now they've become some of the worst out there - the streetlite and street deck being one of them (rattle, rattle, vibrate, rattle).

Eclipse Metro-bodied Volvo B7Ls were one of the thorns in this era of Wrightbus when it came to overall ride quality, though the shortcomings of the chassis itself no doubt played their part there. The ones I'm most familar with (First Glasgow's numerous examples from late 2001/early 2002 with their notoriously uncomfortable seating First specced on almost all of it's vehicles from late 2000 to late 2002; the Renown-bodied B10BLEs that were part of the same order also had it) were particularly uncomfortable in the latter half of their lives, what with what little padding there was in them originally being completely non-existent.

 

[Geordie driver]

I will be honest, I hadn't made the connection between low floor, small wheels and terrible ride quality, i just assumed corners were being cut for economy. Streetlites are not a pleasant working environment.

It's pretty grim banging and clattering for hour after hour and this would be unacceptable in a modern car, which buses are supposed to be competing against. Many passengers seem to think the driver has control over this.

Most drivers seats are grim too, as a result of the hammering they get from some of the larger drivers, myself included.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I will be honest, I hadn't made the connection between low floor, small wheels and terrible ride quality, i just assumed corners were being cut for economy.

They're not the only reason, but they do make a massive difference. You can do an experiment yourself - ride a large-wheeled bicycle on a bumpy road, then try the same with an e-scooter.

Despite being low floor, the Citaro retains large(ish) wheels, and has a smoother ride accordingly.

 

[johnw]

I’ve used the Stagecoach Oxfordshire service S5 a few times between Bicester park and ride and Oxford city centre which has fast dual carriageway running and stop start city running. The Scania N230UD ADL Enviro400s give a much better ride quality, especially at speed compared to the complete Enviro 400 MMCs that shake all over the place.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

There are several factors which contribute to the way that vehicles ride.

The first being the suspension set-up/specification which often has several options which could be fitted, depending on the chassis or choice of the manufacturer.

For example, a Plaxton Panorama has a B11RLE chassis. The rear section comes from a B11R coach chassis and is connected to the front section of the B8RLE chassis, but to ensure higher weight tolerance and comfort Volvo upgraded the front suspension on the Panorama's chassis, from a 7.2t unit to an upgraded 7.5t one.

Over the years what I can only assume is happening is that as more operators and manufacturers have delved into making vehicles light in weight, they have also been able to dilute the specification of the suspension needed due to having a lower unladen weight, even thought gross vehicle weight may remain the same.

For all practical purposes Buses have a lengthy options list which can be ticked just like buying a new car.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

In terms of normal buses on the road today I find the ride quality of the E400MMC to be pretty decent whether it be an integral, Volvo or Scania chassis.

 

[Flange Squeal]

The couple of MCV eVoRa-bodied Volvo B8RLEs I’ve been on recently have seemed pretty good ride wise.

 

[Goldfish62]

The BYD E400EV gives one the best ride qualities I've ever come across. The massive wheels and long wheelbase obviously help.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The BYD E400EV gives one the best ride qualities I've ever come across. The massive wheels and long wheelbase obviously help.

Another thing that helps is dual rear axles, which give the "damping" effect of a bogie on a rail vehicle - we all know how badly Pacers ride. I wonder if an electric bus future might be to instead of having one rear axle with double wheels on each side to have four independent rear wheels with two of them individually hub motored? EVs don't have to look like ICE vehicles, they just do by default.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Another thing that helps is dual rear axles, which give the "damping" effect of a bogie on a rail vehicle - we all know how badly Pacers ride. I wonder if an electric bus future might be to instead of having one rear axle with double wheels on each side to have four independent rear wheels with two of them individually hub motored? EVs don't have to look like ICE vehicles, they just do by default.

Are talking about a tri-axle?

An Enviro 500EV does exist though not for the UK market.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are talking about a tri-axle?

An Enviro 500EV does exist though not for the UK market.

Yes. This is normally only done where weight requires, though, and does have other significant disadvantages i.e. loss of cabin width, cost and maintenance, hence why it's not common. But in a simple sense, a tri-axle (I couldn't think of the term) does generally ride better than a normal two-axle bus.

 

[LUYMun]

The WrightBus StreetDecks on the 114 (Mill Hill Broadway - Ruislip) have an extremely good ride quality to them

 

[Ken H]

Maybe if councils want people to transfer to buses, they should look at road surface quality.There are far too many dropped gullies and manhole covers, and badly reinstated surface after utility roadworks. That's where the bangs and crashes come from.The worst I had was in Leeds on a 7 going up Potternewton Lane. It's quite narrow, so the bus runs over each and every gully and you feel them all.

There is a pharmacy in the GP surgery where the bus gets to Scott Hall Rd where you can buy paracetamol for your headache!

 

[computerSaysNo]

The WrightBus StreetDecks on the 114 (Mill Hill Broadway - Ruislip) have an extremely good ride quality to them

From looking at the map on bustimes, those actually appear to be B5LH/Gemini 3s (effectively a Streetdeck body, on a Volvo hybrid chassis).

 

[E27007]

The Moulton Coach of 1968 by the suspension designer Alex Moulton "the Hydragas Chappie" for high quality ride, the second version ran on front and rear bogies, the testers reported the coach could comfortably ride over railway sleepers without detriment to occupants.
The coach was a one-off, its abilities having ruffled the feathers of politics of the British coach makers.
Many years after, Volvo of Sweden, and the Canadian Govt all sought the Moulton Coach as a improvement over contemporary designs

Moulton Coach

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder if it would be possible to fit a 2-axled bus or coach with a more active type of air suspension, such that when it detected the wheels dropping into a hole the suspension would be actively raised to mean the body would continue at the same height and avoid the drop that contributes to poor ride?

On the other hand, some bus operators have trouble keeping LED destination equipment working...

 

[harz99]

Interesting discussion, one thing nobody has commented on yet are tyre types/makes and tyre pressures all of which can also significantly contribute to rough riding over poor surfaces.

 

[Strathclyder]

The Moulton Coach of 1968 by the suspension designer Alex Moulton "the Hydragas Chappie" for high quality ride, the second version ran on front and rear bogies, the testers reported the coach could comfortably ride over railway sleepers without detriment to occupants.
The coach was a one-off, its abilities having ruffled the feathers of politics of the British coach makers.
Many years after, Volvo of Sweden, and the Canadian Govt all sought the Moulton Coach as a improvement over contemporary designs

Moulton Coach

Given how many of these revolutionary prototypes end up on the scrapheap, I was rather pleasantly surprised to read at the end there that the 'Moulton Coach' still exists, albeit squirreled away at Wroughton.

 

[Flying Snail]

Given how many of these revolutionary prototypes end up on the scrapheap, I was rather pleasently surprised to read at the end there that the 'Moulton Coach' still exists, albeit squirreled away at Wroughton.

It would certainly be interesting to see it in action, tiny wheels and all. If the reviews were true it would probably ride better than modern coaches too as while road handling has generally been improved over the last few decades ride quality hasn't massively.

 

[E27007]

I wonder if it would be possible to fit a 2-axled bus or coach with a more active type of air suspension, such that when it detected the wheels dropping into a hole the suspension would be actively raised to mean the body would continue at the same height and avoid the drop that contributes to poor ride?

On the other hand, some bus operators have trouble keeping LED destination equipment working...

It is possible, Citroen DS of the 1950s and around 8 million cars by BMC hydralastic and hydragas suspension, the front wheels are connected to the rear wheels by pipework and hydraulic displacers at each wheel, gives a wonderful magic carpet without te harsh up-down pitching caused by road irregularities, and preserves sporty cornering characteristics, well controlled body roll when cornering

 

[Strathclyder]

It would certainly be interesting to see it in action, tiny wheels and all. If the reviews were true it would probably ride better than modern coaches too as while road handling has generally been improved over the last few decades ride quality hasn't massively.

Indeed. Barring comparing it with modern coaches in terms of ride quality, handling qualities and overall comfort levels, it'd be nice, as unlikely as it is for a whole host of reasons, to see it move under it's own power again after all these years.

 

[Ken H]

Indeed. Barring comparing it with modern coaches in terms of ride quality, handling qualities and overall comfort levels, it'd be nice, as unlikely as it is for a whole host of reasons, to see it move under it's own power again after all these years.

Isn't there a problem in that if you iron out all the lumps and bumps in the road, it makes some passengers 'seasick'?
Last thing you want to design is a Chunderbus!