Apple Pay - how do details get onto your TfL account

[swt_passenger]

I gave Apple Pay a try yesterday, it worked exactly as I expected at the gatelines. As I also expected, no monetary value was shown against the transaction on the phone screen, because as we know this is calculated overnight and billed at that time.

So by this morning the phone screen showed the correct £2.80 PAYG for the journey I undertook yesterday morning. Ok so far.

Now here's the gist of my question.

The iPhone uses a separate 'Device Account Number', (or DAN) as part of its security regime, rather than the real associated debit card number that you are using. Apparently this is so that the retailer does not know the real debit card account details.

The debit card I had already registered for contactless payment is the same as that loaded on my iPhone, and it is also the default debit card on my Oyster Account for auto top-up. Keeping things simple...

When I checked my TfL online account this morning, I see they have treated yesterday's 'Apple PAYG' journey just like any other previous 'contactless' journey. It just shows up alongside the usual contactless 'last four digits'.

So how do TfL connect the iPhone DAN with my real debit card account number? Is this done during the overnight processing somehow?

Their website doesn't seem to go into much detail in the way it explains Apple Pay, however it does mention this:

"Once you have added your card account details, you will be able to see your Apple Pay devices as separate 'card records' in your TfL account. You will also see your card if it has been used to travel on our services

Initially, your plastic card and iPhone [...] will look like identical cards on their 'my cards' screen"

from here: https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-contactless-payment/apple-pay

That linked info suggests that Apple Pay and contactless records for the same debit card will be shown separately, but I'm not seeing that at all. Is it out of date?

 

[Bletchleyite]

They get there via Apple and your bank, one presumes.

 

[swt_passenger]

They get there via Apple and your bank, one presumes.

That's the only logical explanation, and may be what TfL were on about when they originally mentioned 'altering their systems' to deal with Apple Pay. People thought there should be nothing significant to do because it was just another CPC.

On the face of it if the DAN was to be completely anonymous for every transaction (as implied by Apple's description of normal retail procedures 'at the till') then TfL would not be able to run a single account for you, with all Oyster, contactless, and Apple Pay available behind a single log-in.

Of course this implies that there must be additional links between Apple, TfL, and the bank that are somewhat different than for normal retail transactions - and the biggest obvious difference is the ability to store up transactions and process them overnight for capping purposes.

 

[MikeWh]

That's the only logical explanation, and may be what TfL were on about when they originally mentioned 'altering their systems' to deal with Apple Pay. People thought there should be nothing significant to do because it was just another CPC.

On the face of it if the DAN was to be completely anonymous for every transaction (as implied by Apple's description of normal retail procedures 'at the till') then TfL would not be able to run a single account for you, with all Oyster, contactless, and Apple Pay available behind a single log-in.

Of course this implies that there must be additional links between Apple, TfL, and the bank that are somewhat different than for normal retail transactions - and the biggest obvious difference is the ability to store up transactions and process them overnight for capping purposes.

Storing up transactions and processing overnight is simply the transit model for contactless payments (as distinct from the retail model). I never managed to link my Barclaycard paytag to my TfL account because there is no 3-digit security code assigned to the paytag, only a DAN. I wonder if this is the issue they had to solve when dealing with Apple Pay?

 

[swt_passenger]

Storing up transactions and processing overnight is simply the transit model for contactless payments (as distinct from the retail model). I never managed to link my Barclaycard paytag to my TfL account because there is no 3-digit security code assigned to the paytag, only a DAN. I wonder if this is the issue they had to solve when dealing with Apple Pay?

I was hoping you might be the person best placed to answer the original point Mike!

Do you have any TfL contacts that could possibly provide you with an explanation?

 

[Be3G]

One small piece of information I can add to this is that Apple's announcement of the UK introduction of their payment service was made at their big developer's conference earlier this year, and included a mention of TfL (accompanied by a slide showing a photo of a NBfL, naturally). This would strongly suggest that Apple did work with TfL to make sure Apple Pay would be supported properly.

 

[WelshBluebird]

It seems to me that if this is the case, then some tweaks to the system could make Apple Pay much much more useful when used with TfL!

At the moment, because of the use of a DAN instead of the card number, if you say enter using Apple Pay but exit using your card the entry and exit won't be matched up (because the system will see them as different cards).

But if they do link the Apple Pay transaction directly to your contactless card in some way, then shouldn't it be possible to link up an exitusing using the card to an entry using Apple Pay?

 

[StateOfPlay]

What website are you looking at?

When I check My Account at Tfl, I can see any journey/trips made using my contactless card, but not Apple Pay.

 

[Mojo]

What website are you looking at?

When I check My Account at Tfl, I can see any journey/trips made using my contactless card, but not Apple Pay.

https://contactless.tfl.gov.uk/

Works fine for me, once you have added the details of the CPC you use with Apple Pay.