Are tickets with origin London U123 valid from a London Overground station?

[transplanted]

I want to buy a ticket originating from a london zone 3 station to a station on thameslink out of the zones - the direct route would involve train into london bridge and then up on thameslink services north.

Is a London U123 origin valid to change at canada water instead via london overground and underground? Or is this not allowed?

 

[Starmill]

Usually not - however, they are accepted on a number of routes where Underground tickets are valid on national rail services. This list is about somewhere I'll have a look or somebody may be able to find it for you. The East London line is also a special case where this is done as it was formerly London Underground.

If you are prepared to take the risk, the majority of station staff at TfL Rail or London Overground stations seem to think that U Zone tickets are valid on London Overground or TfL Rail trains as if they were London Underground, either because of a lack of understanding or that is what they have been briefed on. If you bought the ticket anyway and asked you would probably get a positive response, which would then be permission to travel.

 

[transplanted]

Usually not - however, they are accepted on a number of routes where Underground tickets are valid on national rail services. This list is about somewhere I'll have a look or somebody may be able to find it for you. The East London line is also a special case where this is done as it was formerly London Underground.

If you are prepared to take the risk, the majority of station staff at TfL Rail or London Overground stations seem to think that U Zone tickets are valid on London Overground or TfL Rail trains as if they were London Underground, either because of a lack of understanding or that is what they have been briefed on. If you bought the ticket anyway and asked you would probably get a positive response, which would then be permission to travel.

do you know if that includes ELL stations beyond what used that be part of the LU network?

 

[bb21]

What is your actual journey? Without knowing the stations involved it is almost impossible to say.

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

On about half the Overground network (west, north, most of Euston - Watford, GOBLIN), Underground/DLR zonal tickets are accepted on the Overground, but National Rail tickets for the same zones aren't. Pink good, orange bad. But some new Overground staff don't seem to know that they are a National Rail service anyway so perhaps anything goes!

 

[transplanted]

Sydenham to Harpenden

 

[bb21]

Zone U123 is not a valid fare for Sydenham AIUI. You need to purchase a ticket with a named destination.

However if you purchase the Sydenham to Harpenden ticket, you can interchange at Canada Water onto the Underground network. You can also interchange at Kentish Town at the other end if you so wish, instead of other more obvious options. The off-peak fare is cheaper from Sydenham anyway.

For peak travel, you may wish to consider using contactless for part of the journey if cost is of primary concern.

 

[yorkie]

On about half the Overground network (west, north, most of Euston - Watford, GOBLIN), Underground/DLR zonal tickets are accepted on the Overground, but National Rail tickets for the same zones aren't. Pink good, orange bad. But some new Overground staff don't seem to know that they are a National Rail service anyway so perhaps anything goes!

I'm not sure what tickets you are saying aren't being accepted, but I agree that Overground staff do tend to accept, and even issue, invalid U Zone tickets. This is probably because it is easier to just assume they are all valid rather than try to figure out which routes are inter-available or not. The level of training given to LO staff regarding ticketing is very minimal in my experience.

 

[RJ]

I'm not sure what tickets you are saying aren't being accepted, but I agree that Overground staff do tend to accept, and even issue, invalid U Zone tickets. This is probably because it is easier to just assume they are all valid rather than try to figure out which routes are inter-available or not. The level of training given to LO staff regarding ticketing is very minimal in my experience.

To be fair sometimes we are instructed by retail management to issue U Zones fares, where point to point fares are long term missing from NR stations in the London zones. If this is what staff are instructed to do and inspection staff are briefed to accept them then there might not actually be an issue as far as the customer is concerned.

 

[yorkie]

To be fair sometimes we are instructed by retail management to issue U Zones fares, where point to point fares are long term missing from NR stations in the London zones. If this is what staff are instructed to do and inspection staff are briefed to accept them then there might not actually be an issue as far as the customer is concerned.

True, though it's only cheaper to buy the U123 ticket if travelling at a time when an Off Peak Day isn't valid. If so, I'd ask for a ticket to Harpenden at the ticket office and see what they issue. I did once put this to the test at an LO station on the North London Line and was sold a U zones ticket. I'd also ask for a travel itinerary to be printed at the time of purchase, as evidence of the contract.

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

I'm not sure what tickets you are saying aren't being accepted

Not so much about acceptance, probably all are, but only one flavour of zonal fare is *really* valid, it's confusing and I wouldn't blame LO staff for not always getting it right. If it's hard to explain, maybe it's the wrong answer.

 

[TUC]

Given how much of TfL's own ticketing is multimodal in its validity it does seem a curious and annoying anachronism for National Rail add-ons to only be valid on the tube. It presumably wouldn't make any difference to TfL's income to make them mulimodal.