ASLEF strikes 5th-8th April weekend

[Bantamzen]

IIRC, the network rail part of the dispute got resolved suddenly out of nowhere when the government decided signallers are causing too much disruption so took them out of the equation. A while after that, they did the same with the rest of the RMT shortly after their embarrassment of failed ticket office closure consultation. Or maybe they just decided to simply isolate ASLEF in the railway dispute; who knows.

Hope that answers your question?

I seriously doubt the latter, but I do suspect that RMT had a hand in brokering a compromise deal. The ticket office fiasco probably helped with that, but then the RMT deal could also help ASLEF get the same.

 

[Train_manager]

A certain someone is trying to get the thread closed. I've found the Ignore function and it makes the thread much more readable and pleasant

Excellent idea. I wish I knew about that forum function last week.

 

[akasutts]

Is the reason that this deal can not be put to its members simply because it actually may be accepted?

We all know that the TOCs have a wide ranging set of terms & conditions. The higher paid TOCs will have already sold off terms & conditions which reflect the higher pay whereas the lower paid TOCs have not.

If the governments current deal was put to members. The impact of these proposed changing of conditions will possibly have minimal impact on drivers at the higher paid TOCs so it is possible that they would vote to accept the 4 + 4 proposal. Drivers at the lower paid TOCs will then have the changes forced upon them for a minimal pay rise having not had the option to ‘sell’ the changes that the other TOCs have already done.

Are ASLEF just protecting all of its members hence why the general consensus on here is that it should be a set no strings pay offer for year 1 and then it should be left to a TOC by TOC basis to implement modernisation changes. It sort of feels like this is just a cheap way of forcing terms on all Aslef members which is being somewhat overlooked. The one size fits all proposal in this situation is ridiculous.

 

[DJP78]

But how did RMT arrive at that position? By doing nothing and blaming everyone else? ASLEF execs may not like the caveat of having to put the offer to the membership, but its within their capability to do it.

You continue to compare chalk & cheese, despite knowing full well that the RMT offer was materially different, in that they had a no-strings offer whereas the ASLEF offer is totally different with all sorts of detrimental changes attached

Are ASLEF just protecting all of its members hence why the general consensus on here is that it should be a set no strings pay offer for year 1 and then it should be left to a TOC by TOC basis to implement modernisation changes. It sort of feels like this is just a cheap way of forcing terms on all Aslef members which is being somewhat overlooked. The one size fits all proposal in this situation is ridiculous.

Spot on. TOC by TOC negotiation is the only way forward

If the Gov don’t like this, tough on them for opening a Pandora’s box of individual private companies

 

[Carlisle]

Is the reason that this deal can not be put to its members simply because it actually may be accepted?

Didn’t Lizz Truss propose to change the law to force unions to put proposals to their members in the event of a deadlock. ?

 

[DDB]

Is the reason that this deal can not be put to its members simply because it actually may be accepted?

I cannot get my head around how people on this forum seriously think the drivers that keep voting overwhelming for strike action in a secret ballot for each TOC every six months somehow would also vote for the current offer and to end the strike!

I don't work for the railway but I understand how annoying this ridiculous lack of understanding must be for people who are drivers given how annoying it is who understands simple logic.

 

[DJP78]

I was against them because set against the backdrop of a post-covid slump, and cost of living increases as a result of global situations beyond our control I felt that both prolonged disputes and way above normal pay rises could be even more damaging in the long run.

Well, I’m glad you state that this is just your opinion. Because that’s very much all it is.

A lot of the ASLEF members, myself included, are extremely committed to the dispute. It’s worth remembering that many of the major railway money people (rolling stock companies, TOC shareholders, pension funds, hedge funds, senior managers such as CEO’s) continued to extract exorbitant sums from the railways throughout and after Covid, and that hasn’t changed.

Unfortunately, the railway employees, who kept the trains running, appear to be the ones attacked and subject to derogatory and demeaning rhetoric from Tory politicians and sections of the media.

The Tories are hell-bent on destroying union protocols and many of the remunerative and safety conditions that have taken decades to establish.

We can see clearly what this offer (aka attack) amounts to.

I think it extraordinary that ASLEF members should accept a derisory offer, whilst so many have hoovered hundreds of millions of pounds from our efforts to keep trains moving

I'm sure that would be the case at all depots. But it would be a formal rejection from the members, which is what is being asked for.

You cannot appoint yourself spokesperson for drivers

You have no idea the outcome of individual TOC negotiations or how the members at each depot would vote

It would all depend on the local negotiations

 

[akasutts]

I cannot get my head around how people on this forum seriously think the drivers that keep voting overwhelming for strike action in a secret ballot for each TOC every six months somehow would also vote for the current offer and to end the strike!

I don't work for the railway but I understand how annoying this ridiculous lack of understanding must be for people who are drivers given how annoying it is who understands simple logic.

The line between it being an acceptable offer is going to probably vary greatly TOC by TOC due to the differing terms & conditions. I completely understand that the current deal would likely be rejected but as previously mentioned by other members, what’s to stop the government returning each time with mildly tweaked terms which may end up with a vote being accepted by members which benefits the higher paid TOCs. The point being that a few comments on this forum seem to suggest that it should just be put to a vote to be outright rejected, but I don’t think it’s as simple as that as ASLEF are looking after the interests of all of its members.

 

[DJP78]

I cannot get my head around how people on this forum seriously think the drivers that keep voting overwhelming for strike action in a secret ballot for each TOC every six months somehow would also vote for the current offer and to end the strike!

I don't work for the railway but I understand how annoying this ridiculous lack of understanding must be for people who are drivers given how annoying it is who understands simple logic.

It’s reassuring to know there are sensible people out there!

You are quite right. If ASLEF members wanted a crack at the offer that the ASLEF executive deem unacceptable, we would have long ago voted to cease industrial action

We also have local union reps who are tasked with canvassing local opinion. If we wanted to vote on the offer, this could easily be fed back via established channels of communication within the union

 

[Cowley]

We think everyone’s had a chance to have their say now, so we’ll close it here.

Thanks everyone