Attempted fine for getting an earlier train after Northern cancelled the original train

[Stuezo]

My son was travelling from Cattal (near York) to Penrith (via Leeds and Manchester) - all booked on the one ticket. He was informed that the train on the 1st leg was cancelled and advised to get the next train. This would have resulted in him missing his connections and the meet up time in Penrith. Not unreasonably (we thought) he got the earlier train (still off peak) so that he could make the connections. However a ticket inspector took his details but said nothing would happen. He the got a letter asking him to pay for a new ticket. He immediately appealed explaining the situation. Within days he got a further letter asking him for payment AND fining him.
I contacted the “ helpline” and they seemed to imply that the fine was for getting the earlier train rather than the later one. The lad suggested that he should have got the later train, missed all his connections and then claim a refund. I asked that if I am going for a job interview and THEY cancel my train that I should just accept that I’ve lost my job opportunity and then claim £20 compensation.
??????
I can’t understand what the problem is getting the earlier train especially when it is because THEY cancelled the original train.
It would also save them paying compensation.
The earlier train in question was on a 1/2 hourly service ( York to Leeds train). When I grew up in Glasgow you just had a peak or off peak ticket and they weren’t train specific just that if it was off peak that you don’t travel during the peak period.

 

[northwichcat]

Was it a Northern guard (on the train) that issued the notice? I thought it was standard Northern procedure that if they cancel your booked train they allow you to travel on either the service before or after the cancelled service. At least that's what their social media team told me last year. If he also used TransPennine Express and didn't travel on his booked train it may be a different matter.

When I grew up in Glasgow you just had a peak or off peak ticket and they weren’t train specific just that if it was off peak that you don’t travel during the peak period.

Off Peak and Peak tickets still exist. Advances are an additional ticket type with more restrictions. If the interview took longer than expected and he missed his booked train home, he would be required to buy a new ticket if he held an Advance. With Peak he could catch the next train regardless, with Off Peak he would be able to catch the following Off Peak train. The more you pay the more flexibility you have.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

How authoritative is this 'advice' from Northern?

Delays and cancellations

Northern | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

www.northernrailway.co.uk

Extract...

Can I get a different train if mine is cancelled?
There is nothing stopping you from catching a different train if your service is cancelled. Just check Northern’s timetable to find an alternative train.

 

[Western Sunset]

For the man (or woman) on the Clapham omnibus, the extract quoted by McrW is totally clear, with no ifs or buts.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Most likely, all the advice above is correct, but just in case, it would help if you could give full details of the ticket your son had (probably easiest to show us a picture of it), the exact trains he planned to use (what day, what time, what operator), the same for the trains he did use, and the emails he has had from Northern. This should be (more than) enough for us to work out what Northern think they are doing, and to see if they have gone wrong.

 

[HurdyGurdy]

with Off Peak he would be able to catch the following Off Peak train.

The Off-peak is valid after 09:00. Cattall to Penrith also has Super Offpeak return fares and the only single walk up fares are Anytime and Super Offpeak. Super Offpeak is valid after 09:30. If the OP's son caught an earlier "Peak" train, even if no trains were cancelled, or the statement made on Northern's site doesn't give permission to travel in the event they are, he should have been charged an excess fare, rather than being required to purchase a new ticket, let alone receive a fine or pay a settlement.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Wondering whether the ticket might have been one of those "cut and shunt" combinations that are sometimes offered, part advance and part walk up. Perhaps, as and when they are next back on the forum, the OP (= @Stuezo) could confirm what ticket type was actually held by their son, together with the price paid, the date and time of travel, etc.

 

[robbeech]

This really doesn’t add up. The only advances are Avanti and connections. These should give you a fixed train for an Avanti leg and perhaps a TPE leg, but it’s unlikely to give you Cattal to Leeds as a fixed time as that should be part of the “and connections”.

Most journeys a journey planner will give you don’t offer you these, nor do they offer via Leeds and Manchester.

We’ve seen 2 or 3 posts recently where this sort of thing has happened with Northern. It makes me wonder if they’ve provided even poorer training than before to revenue staff.

 

[Watershed]

This really doesn’t add up. The only advances are Avanti and connections. These should give you a fixed train for an Avanti leg and perhaps a TPE leg, but it’s unlikely to give you Cattal to Leeds as a fixed time as that should be part of the “and connections”.

Most journeys a journey planner will give you don’t offer you these, nor do they offer via Leeds and Manchester.

We’ve seen 2 or 3 posts recently where this sort of thing has happened with Northern. It makes me wonder if they’ve provided even poorer training than before to revenue staff.

Unfortunately the Harrogate services now have counted place reservations available, as with most Northern services - hence you'll get a reservation for one even on the "& Connections" part of an Advance.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Let's wait to hear from the OP (= @Stuezo) with the ticket details, who doesn't seem to have been back on here since Saturday evening.

 

[northwichcat]

Let's wait to hear from the OP (= @Stuezo) with the ticket details, who doesn't seem to have been back on here since Saturday evening.

It may be someone who wanted to vent off on a public forum, rather than someone joining in the hope of being some useful advice.

 

[Stuezo]

Let's wait to hear from the OP (= @Stuezo) with the ticket details, who doesn't seem to have been back on here since Saturday evening.

Hi Guys. Thanks for the interest and info. I will ask my son what ticket he had ( I had replied to an email previously but I now know that I should have come onto the forum. Thanks again.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi Guys. Thanks for the interest and info. I will ask my son what ticket he had ( I had replied to an email previously but I now know that I should have come onto the forum. Thanks again.

Hi - don't leave this too long - there are often time limits for responses on this stuff with the Railway if there is action to take - and you do not want to miss any deadlines.