"Automatic refunds for delayed trains"?? How??

[Howardh]

Reading Labours proposals covered on the main thread, makes me wonder how you can automatically refund a pax if their train is delayed? Unless hey have a specific train ticket (which may not be used anyway) how would they know you were on that train that was delayed, many would simply have single or return anytime tickets?

My suggestion would be every train carries a card reader, and if you are on that train and it is delayed, you tap that card or QR code onto the reader as you alight, and a pax couldn't use two cards and get two refunds as it could only be the one used to make the purchase. Anyone paying by cash would, I suppose, have to apply via the usual procedure if their ticket didn't have that code.

Is there a better method??

 

[Bletchleyite]

It will likely just be for Advance tickets, for which a few TOCs already do it.

 

[Howardh]

It will likely just be for Advance tickets, for which a few TOCs already do it.

In which case it seems a meaningless proposal!

 

[Bletchleyite]

In which case it seems a meaningless proposal!

Rolling out automatic delay repay for Advances on all TOCs wouldn't be meaningless. Presently only a few TOCs do it and only if bought from them.

 

[Howardh]

Rolling out automatic delay repay for Advances on all TOCs wouldn't be meaningless. Presently only a few TOCs do it and only if bought from them.

Sorry, I didn't mean getting the repay was meaningless, the actual proposal was seeing as it already happens! I'm already on Northern's automatic DR scheme, but never had a penny through it as I've never had an advance ticket.

 

[Snow1964]

It will likely just be for Advance tickets, for which a few TOCs already do it.

But that assumes you use one train for whole journey, often advances are part of a journey with local connection at start or end or both.

The TOCs already seem to not automatically refund if train is just few minutes late, but connection gets missed and end up lot late at final destination.

If they can't deal with connections (on same booking) then system is useless to proportion of journeys. I disagree with selective auto refunds as it confuses the message.

 

[Howardh]

But that assumes you use one train for whole journey, often advances are part of a journey with local connection at start or end or both.

The TOCs already seem to not automatically refund if train is just few minutes late, but connection gets missed and end up lot late at final destination.

If they can't deal with connections (on same booking) then system is useless to proportion of journeys. I disagree with selective auto refunds as it confuses the message.

Yes, it could be the shortest part of the journey that's delayed, yet you still arrive at the destination late. I had that last week, Brighton/London/Manchester/Lostock and while I arrived back to Manchester on time, my final leg was 25 mins late and a refund on that part (separate ticket) would be something like £1.25. If the 25 min delay were on Avanti, more like £20!!

 

[mangyiscute]

The worry I had reading that was they would try and shift towards a lot more booked train-only tickets to provide services like this (think also guaranteed seats) and make the railways "easier" which would just be awful.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Rolling out automatic delay repay for Advances on all TOCs wouldn't be meaningless. Presently only a few TOCs do it and only if bought from them.

eclaration of interest: through most of my adult life I have been a member of the Labour Party. So I may be a little biased here>

So automatic Delay Repay on single leg Advance tickets would increase the number of DR payments on a given journey from those who claimed it to those entitle to it.

My feeling is that this would increase the number of claims on a delayed journey from 'a handful' to 'a lot'. Which in turn would mean the amount paid out going up quite a lot.

So won't this make running delayed trains more costly for the railway - and lead to greater concentration on running trains to time?

 

[Howardh]

eclaration of interest: through most of my adult life I have been a member of the Labour Party. So I may be a little biased here>

So automatic Delay Repay on single leg Advance tickets would increase the number of DR payments on a given journey from those who claimed it to those entitle to it.

My feeling is that this would increase the number of claims on a delayed journey from 'a handful' to 'a lot'. Which in turn would mean the amount paid out going up quite a lot.

So won't this make running delayed trains more costly for the railway - and lead to greater concentration on running trains to time?

What is the actual cost, annually, or delay repay (including administration)? Would passengers generally prefer cheaper tickets but no delay repay (save, maybe , for exceptional circumstances such as an hour late) as a lot of the time the repay is so little it's hardly worth applying for, and in other cases you kind-of put time aside on longer journeys for delays, eg. Manchester to London I "put aside" 30 mins for late running in my plans?

 

[JonathanH]

I thought c2c do automatic refunds for users of their smartcard, matched against the trains people use.

Automatic Delay Repay | Delay compensation with c2c Smartcard

Get automatically repaid when you experience delays of 2 minutes or more, when you travel with a c2c Smartcard

www.c2c-online.co.uk

Key information

* Automatically get money back, into your c2c online account, whenever you experience delays of more than 2 minutes.

* Just tap in and tap out with your c2c Smartcard so that we can see if you were delayed.

More information

How does Automatic Delay Repay work for Smartcard tickets?
If you travel using a c2c Smartcard, you can choose to be automatically repaid for delays of two minutes or more. To find out more, visit the Automatic Delay Repay page.
How much Automatic Delay Repay compensation will I receive?
The amount of compensation you receive under the Automatic Delay Repay scheme will depend on the length of delay and the type and cost of ticket you have purchased. This is set out below: Two to 14-minute delay - you’ll receive 3p per full minute delay, starting from two minutes, which means for a two-minute delay you will receive 3p; for a three-minute delay you receive 6p - and so on. This tier is only available through the ADR Scheme and not via manual claims For a 15 to 29-minute delay - you’ll receive 25% of the cost of your single journey, pro-rata to the type of ticket held For a 30 to 59-minute delay - you’ll get 50% of the cost of your single journey, pro-rata to the type of ticket held For a 60 to 119-minute delay - you’ll receive 100% of the cost of your single journey, pro-rata to the type of ticket held For a 120-minute delay (or longer) - you’ll get 100% of the cost of your return journey, pro-rata to the type of ticket held. This only applies to Return tickets, including Season tickets. It does not apply to Single tickets, as you’ll already receive 100% of the ticket cost after a 60-minute delay.

Is automatic delay repay available for e-tickets like on Smartcards?
No, Automatic Delay Repay is only available for customers who have fulfilled their tickets to Smartcard. Delay Repay for e-ticket journeys will need to be claimed manually via our website.

When am I eligible for Automatic Delay Repay?
There are four mandatory requirements to qualify for Automatic Delay Repay. They are: 1. That you’re a c2c Smartcard holder 2. That you’ve loaded a valid ticket onto your Smartcard 3. That you use the c2c Smartcard to tap-in at the origin station, tapping out again at the destination station 4. That you have an online account on the c2c website, which has the c2c Smartcard linked to it. You can also download the c2c Train Travel app, which is optional - and you can use it to view allocated trains, choose alternate trains and view compensation values. Please note: this is the only way in which this information can be viewed and amended. Once you have met all of the mandatory requirements above, we will automatically credit your account with an eVoucher for the amount of compensation assigned to the delay to your journey.

How do I get a refund?
If you wish to claim a refund from c2c, please use our form to request a refund online. If you are travelling using a Smartcard, you may opt into Automatic Delay Repay.

In a future where all local journeys are on smartcards or Contactless, you could see how touch in and touch out could be set up to match with the train used and delays arising.

 

[Topological]

Are we saying that the automatic delay repay would not be clever enough to spot a tied ticket? To be fair GWR are always offering automatic delay repay when one leg is affected, but if a manual claim goes in for all the split tickets (and GWR are the train company whose service was delayed) they are good at paying out on the whole journey.

Does this mean that the auto delay repay is designed to put people off claiming for the full entitlement?

Either way it all strikes me as a gimmic in the proposals.

 

[Howardh]

Are we saying that the automatic delay repay would not be clever enough to spot a tied ticket? To be fair GWR are always offering automatic delay repay when one leg is affected, but if a manual claim goes in for all the split tickets (and GWR are the train company whose service was delayed) they are good at paying out on the whole journey.

Does this mean that the auto delay repay is designed to put people off claiming for the full entitlement?

Either way it all strikes me as a gimmic in the proposals.

That was my original thought, it's already done, so in order to do it properly the whole system would have to be overhauled so everyone on that journey gets refunded automatically, advance ticket or not, and other than having readers on the train themselves, or the guard coming round with one, I can't see how else it can be done.