Available diversionary routes for GWR with IETs?

[Class 170101]

Mod Note: Posts #1 - #6 originally in this thread.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...ds/attachment_data/file/4888/dft-f0008119.pdf

Interestingly Hereford to Cardiff is shown for ECS working rather than diversionary capability and also no clearance planned for Oxford / Banbury to Paddington or Marylebone. Nor Waterloo via Basingstoke to Salisbury or Basingstoke to Reading it seems.

I am sure Wocester to Cheltenham will see regular use not just diversions.

 

[jimm]

Interestingly Hereford to Cardiff is shown for ECS working rather than diversionary capability and also no clearance planned for Oxford / Banbury to Paddington or Marylebone. Nor Waterloo via Basingstoke to Salisbury or Basingstoke to Reading it seems.

I am sure Wocester to Cheltenham will see regular use not just diversions.

As for East Coast area I'm surprised Harrogate to York is being cleared - can't see IEPs going there very often. Huddersfield clearly has been missed especially now the North TPE route from Liverpool to York via Manchester and York will use them.

Presumably lots of route around the Glasgow suburbs are being cleared (the map isn't clear) as the East Coast operator seemed to have a 'route card' as long as your arm.

The document I linked to is, as I said, seven years old, so it has been overtaken by events in various places.

At that point FGW diversions of HSTs to Marylebone via Banbury were a recent novelty (first done in December 2010) and the Bicester chord was still at the design stage, so the DfT probably hadn't bothered to think about the Chiltern Line.

The likelihood of diversions that way in future is limited once all the work for Crossrail is out of the way, making blocks of all four tracks at places between London and Reading a rarity, so Marylebone diversions may soon be a distant memory. Same can be said for large-scale diversions into Waterloo via the South Western Main Line. So whether it would even be worth the time and money to achieve clearance is open to doubt.

Hereford to Newport will indeed only be used for empty stock moves, which is no different from the regular use of this route by HSTs for the past 30 years.

There are only a few GWR Worcester-London services via Cheltenham now and there are not likely to be any more than that in the immediate future, especially when the Cotswold Line service is going to be enhanced once the new timetables finally kicks in, so Worcester to Cheltenham will remain largely used for empty stock and diversions if the Cotswold Line is shut.

 

[Class 170101]

Hereford to Newport will indeed only be used for empty stock moves, which is no different from the regular use of this route by HSTs for the past 30 years.

I seem to recall 03:58 Swnsea to Paddington running via this route a couple of years ago when Severn Tunnel Junction was being renewed.

 

[Class 170101]

At that point FGW diversions of HSTs to Marylebone via Banbury were a recent novelty (first done in December 2010) and the Bicester chord was still at the design stage, so the DfT probably hadn't bothered to think about the Chiltern Line.

The likelihood of diversions that way in future is limited once all the work for Crossrail is out of the way, making blocks of all four tracks at places between London and Reading a rarity, so Marylebone diversions may soon be a distant memory. Same can be said for large-scale diversions into Waterloo via the South Western Main Line. So whether it would even be worth the time and money to achieve clearance is open to doubt.

It will depend if NR can maintain the OLE, especially at Junctions, without having to close all four lines to traffic due to Health and Safety requirements. Can the WCML, ECML, GEML and MML OLE be maintained as a two line railway or is it a four line closure?

Surely having the diversionary routes clear is of benefit to passengers if the industry wishes to encourage further use when capacity is available - at off peak times and weekends.

There are only a few GWR Worcester-London services via Cheltenham now and there are not likely to be any more than that in the immediate future, especially when the Cotswold Line service is going to be enhanced once the new timetables finally kicks in, so Worcester to Cheltenham will remain largely used for empty stock and diversions if the Cotswold Line is shut.

I thought extra services were going to run between Cheltenham and Worcester as extensions of the London to Cheltenham services?

 

[SC43090]

I seem to recall 03:58 Swnsea to Paddington running via this route a couple of years ago when Severn Tunnel Junction was being renewed.

IN the 1987 BR timetable there was an through service from Paddington to Newport via Hereford..... 1825 Paddington Newport via Hereford i travelled on the service from Paddington to Newport power cars was 43140 43185.....

SC43090

 

[jimm]

It will depend if NR can maintain the OLE, especially at Junctions, without having to close all four lines to traffic due to Health and Safety requirements. Can the WCML, ECML, GEML and MML OLE be maintained as a two line railway or is it a four line closure?

Surely having the diversionary routes clear is of benefit to passengers if the industry wishes to encourage further use when capacity is available - at off peak times and weekends.

Overhead ine maintenance is a rather different kettle of fish from rebuilding Reading station or replacing the bridges over roads nearby, or the work on the flyover at Airport Junction, to take two of the key reasons why diversions to Marylebone and Waterloo took place.

Capacity on the diversionary routes is ever more limited due to the relevant TOCs increasing their services. The last time GWR operated into Marylebone, Chiltern had to cancel a number of its trains to make paths available, and platforms at Marylebone, and SWR's future timetable plans will probably reduce the ability of the SWML and Waterloo to handle many diversions either.

I thought extra services were going to run between Cheltenham and Worcester as extensions of the London to Cheltenham services?

There is nothing suggesting this will happen in what GWR has said about the big timetable shake-up, nor was there any mention of it in the stakeholder presentation that was used at the start of the direct award in 2015. More services were proposed in the Western route strategy a few years ago but that's about as far as the idea has got. If more Cotswold Line services means more Cotswold Line IET diagrams requiring overnight stabling at Worcester, then there won't be any space for Cheltenham sets there - using those stabling sidings is the main reason why the current HSTs operate north of Cheltenham, not because of the volume of passenger traffic.

I seem to recall 03:58 Swnsea to Paddington running via this route a couple of years ago when Severn Tunnel Junction was being renewed.

Which was an extremely unusual situation, where the usual diversion route via Gloucester was not available at the same time as the tunnel was shut. Whereas the Bristol-Hereford and back empty stock moves happen six days a week pretty much all year and have for a very long time.

 

[PHILIPE]

There was an IET test run planned over the Mule Thursday night but it was subsequently cancelled. RTT only said "Reason not investigated". So we are just left in the dark for the reason.

 

[swt_passenger]

The latest EDP update, (Sept 18), still includes an IET diversionary route from Reading into Waterloo (assumed via Ascot and Staines). The lack of the direct route from Yeovil via Salisbury and Basingstoke must imply they don’t think a closure of the entire Reading area is a foreseeable event.

 

[TEW]

It does seem a little strange to clear the route via Ascot, when was the last time HSTs diverted that way from Reading? Must be over 10 years ago. More recent diversions from Reading went via Basingstoke to Waterloo.

There is a major project this Christmas which involves the closure of all lines at Southall on the 23rd, 24th and 30th December. GWR will not be diverting trains in to alternative terminals or to Paddington via alternative routes. Long distance services will be terminating at Reading. Passengers are advised not to travel if possible, or to use other TOCs in to London.

 

[jimm]

An IET has already ventured down part of the Reading-Waterloo route, as far as Ascot, I think. It was mentioned some time ago in the main Class 800 thread, I seem to recall.

It does seem a little strange to clear the route via Ascot, when was the last time HSTs diverted that way from Reading? Must be over 10 years ago. More recent diversions from Reading went via Basingstoke to Waterloo.

There is a major project this Christmas which involves the closure of all lines at Southall on the 23rd, 24th and 30th December. GWR will not be diverting trains in to alternative terminals or to Paddington via alternative routes. Long distance services will be terminating at Reading. Passengers are advised not to travel if possible, or to use other TOCs in to London.

Diversions into Waterloo aren't an option this Christmas anyway, whatever rolling stock GWR is using.

From the SWR website

22 to 24 December 2018

About half of London Waterloo station will be closed Sunday 23 and Monday 24 December. This will affect platforms 1 to 10 and mostly long distance and suburban services towards Chessington, Epsom, Surbiton, Kingston, Basingstoke and Alton. Other train services will also be altered and only about half the normal train service will run in and out of London Waterloo.

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/planned-improvements/december-works

 

[TEW]

Diversions into Waterloo aren't an option this Christmas anyway, whatever rolling stock GWR is using.

Indeed, but I haven't found any engineering work that would prevent services running via the Chiltern route, either in to Marylebone or Paddington.

 

[The Planner]

Irrelevant as they aren't cleared down that way as noted previously.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Will the construction of the new station at Old Oak Common be possible without full line closures? Past experience suggests not, but perhaps it will be if the first stage of construction is on what will be by then the out of use Park Royal and HEX site and when complete allow access to Paddington while the rest of the site is developed. Even so I suspect there will be changes to the signalling which will require full line closures for it to be commissioned, but I am speculating without any real knowledge on the subject.

 

[swt_passenger]

Will the construction of the new station at Old Oak Common be possible without full line closures? Past experience suggests not, but perhaps it will be if the first stage of construction is on what will be by then the out of use Park Royal and HEX site and when complete allow access to Paddington while the rest of the site is developed. Even so I suspect there will be changes to the signalling which will require full line closures for it to be commissioned, but I am speculating without any real knowledge on the subject.

Same (similar?) situation as the Reading rebuild. New platforms on a site alongside the operational railway, but well outside the boundary, so they can make a head start without railway safety precautions. Then slew reliefs over into new platforms. It looks pretty straightforward.

 

[hwl]

Will the construction of the new station at Old Oak Common be possible without full line closures? Past experience suggests not, but perhaps it will be if the first stage of construction is on what will be by then the out of use Park Royal and HEX site and when complete allow access to Paddington while the rest of the site is developed. Even so I suspect there will be changes to the signalling which will require full line closures for it to be commissioned, but I am speculating without any real knowledge on the subject.

Virtually all of it should be possible taking out only a pair of lines at a time for track slues etc.