Avanti Standard vs Avanti First Class

[dave87016]

Well having found myself a day off today I decided at 3am this morning to spontaneously book a advance standard class return from Preston to Glasgow for a jolly in Stirling and given how cheap it was I couldn’t resist

Preston - Glasgow booked at 3am this morning on the 0815 from Preston and 17:30 from Glasgow set me back £21 return with railcard then Glasgow - Stirling and return on HST £6:30

On the return journey from Glasgow I went to the onboard shop purchased a cheeseburger , hot chocolate , 4 finger Kit Kat and a BLT sandwich for £9:90 which I thought was brilliant the sandwich was for work Tomoz considering how hit and miss my experiences are travelling first class with them I think in future I will use standard class as can get good value refreshments onboard compared to first class

For the curious minds at 3am the first class return with railcard on The same services was £89 return and at 5am had shot up to £112

The shop Staff were both very helpful and pleasant , the click and collect wasn’t working on either service

 

[Blinkbonny]

Yes, that's a decision I have more or less made on every journey in the last couple of years - though I don't use the onboard shop, finding even better value by shopping elsewhere!

The previous five years to that I was a First Class regular, until Avanti started tripling my fare, as a consequence of which I now spend a fraction of the amount with them that I used to.

 

[sh24]

Standard Premium is my choice - space, decent size table to work from, generally far fewer noisy people and just a modest uplift from the advance standard fare.

 

[route101]

I used to use Avanti/Virgin First class before Standard premium now and then from Glasgow to Preston. Too expensive now to justify against standard.

 

[Butts]

I rarely use Avanti 1st Class now as SP has wrecked the fare structure.

Even SAD to EUS seems to be around £40 at the cheapest with a Railcard - double what used to be available.

I wonder if they are actually taking more money overall with the changes ?

 

[W-on-Sea]

I do think the refurbishment of the Pendolinos has substantially improved the comfort and general ambiance of the standard class coaches - making them the best of any of the "intercity" travelling environments at present. I was really surprised at just how successful the transformation has been.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I rarely use Avanti 1st Class now as SP has wrecked the fare structure.

Even SAD to EUS seems to be around £40 at the cheapest with a Railcard - double what used to be available.

I wonder if they are actually taking more money overall with the changes ?

There's less First Class now so they have to change the business model to charge fewer people more. It does in my observation still seem to be filling, but I've given up upgrading as I really quite like the new Standard and a table for two to myself is now unlikely.

I do think the refurbishment of the Pendolinos has substantially improved the comfort and general ambiance of the standard class coaches - making them the best of any of the "intercity" travelling environments at present. I was really surprised at just how successful the transformation has been.

It's superb. Coupled with the fact that there's less SP so there's less chance of a table for two to myself I generally don't upgrade any more. Good seats, good legroom and non-excessive (but not dingy) lighting. Really looking forward to the 805/807s which should be the same thing with bigger windows.

 

[class17]

Yes, that's a decision I have more or less made on every journey in the last couple of years - though I don't use the onboard shop, finding even better value by shopping elsewhere!

The previous five years to that I was a First Class regular, until Avanti started tripling my fare, as a consequence of which I now spend a fraction of the amount with them that I used to.

My experience exactly. £7.90 with railcard, Preston to Glasgow Advance Standard. £44.65 1st. £24.40 SP with 25% early booking discount.

The lounge at Glasgow Central was often worth a call.

But for now, its always Standard. I would move to SP if the train was very busy, but as yet, have not paid for the upgrade.

I think the SP upgrade is £25, Previous 1st was just less than £30

 

[Howardh]

I'm missing those first class treats I used to have with Virgin, but Avanti first was a pretty miserable effort anyway.

Sat in standard right now with a glass of red bought from Lidl, and spend the saving on my holiday I'm about to have!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm missing those first class treats I used to have with Virgin, but Avanti first was a pretty miserable effort anyway.

Avanti 1st is certainly a disappointment. There was a lot of talk about making it super-premium, with it just being half a coach with a dedicated steward and a really high quality food and drink offer, but if anything it's got worse from Virgin days. My personal view is that they should abolish both it and SP, and replace it with "First Class" European style, i.e. just the seat and free tea/coffee/water from a self-service station in the middle of the coach, and at-seat service of paid food/drink from the shop as desired.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I do think the refurbishment of the Pendolinos has substantially improved the comfort and general ambiance of the standard class coaches - making them the best of any of the "intercity" travelling environments at present. I was really surprised at just how successful the transformation has been.

Greta anglia's Norwich 745 sets are a good rival but otherwise I would agree that no one else is even coming Close or bothering to try

 

[Chester1]

Yes, that's a decision I have more or less made on every journey in the last couple of years - though I don't use the onboard shop, finding even better value by shopping elsewhere!

The previous five years to that I was a First Class regular, until Avanti started tripling my fare, as a consequence of which I now spend a fraction of the amount with them that I used to.

I used to use Avanti/Virgin First class before Standard premium now and then from Glasgow to Preston. Too expensive now to justify against standard.

I used to regularly upgrade to First Class at weekends or keep an eye out for cheap advances. Despite my income rising, I found it the appeal decreased. The weekend upgrade went from £15 to £25 and cheap advances became rarer. I have tried Standard Premium once and would be tempted to upgrade on the busiest evening services only. The refurbishment provides less incentive to upgrade. Its a improved environment and easier to charge my phone and tablet.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Avanti 1st is certainly a disappointment. There was a lot of talk about making it super-premium, with it just being half a coach with a dedicated steward and a really high quality food and drink offer, but if anything it's got worse from Virgin days. My personal view is that they should abolish both it and SP, and replace it with "First Class" European style, i.e. just the seat and free tea/coffee/water from a self-service station in the middle of the coach, and at-seat service of paid food/drink from the shop as desired.

Or singing as the pendo and I assume the 80x units have decent kitchens have a chef on board the majority of services cooking a selection of basic hot meals as well as freshly made sandwiches toasties and salads which could be silver served to first class customers and ordered the bar for standard with collection advised by SMS message. This is what East Midlands used to do certainly for first class and it was a good concept and it meant you've got a decent meal at a reasonable price, certainly no more than most of the reputable chain pubs which charge for burger and chips or toasty and salad or curry and rice etc and there would not be the lottery of take it or leave it subject to availability complementaries that exists on the east coast and either blows you away with surprise or deeply disappoints and definitely affects the pricing model, give an that I'm sure I'm not the only traveler on the East coast main Line these days who will buy a first advanced or upgrade for the sake of not sitting or rather suffering on an awning board for a long distance run

 

[class17]

I also wonder if it is a cost saving exercise, reduce the number of First Class seats, so less staff in First Class required.

I also wonder if the market south from the North West is busier and London bound/based people are prepared to pay a higher SP supplement. But from the North West north, it is quieter and the £25 SP supplement is less attractive.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Or singing as the pendo and I assume the 80x units have decent kitchens have a chef on board the majority of services cooking a selection of basic hot meals as well as freshly made sandwiches toasties and salads which could be silver served to first class customers and ordered the bar for standard with collection advised by SMS message. This is what East Midlands used to do certainly for first class and it was a good concept and it meant you've got a decent meal at a reasonable price, certainly no more than most of the reputable chain pubs which charge for burger and chips or toasty and salad or curry and rice etc and there would not be the lottery of take it or leave it subject to availability complementaries that exists on the east coast and either blows you away with surprise or deeply disappoints and definitely affects the pricing model, give an that I'm sure I'm not the only traveler on the East coast main Line these days who will buy a first advanced or upgrade for the sake of not sitting or rather suffering on an awning board for a long distance run

The problem is consistency. M&S at the station is always there and their products, while cold, are of superb quality and variety. Thus, the business of selling meals on trains really is rather niche.

They'd be better converting the kitchen to more seats and luggage space, to be honest, or a staff break area so they stop hogging passenger seats. You could "silver serve" high quality ready meals e.g. M&S ones, but you really don't need to be cooking food fresh on trains in 2023, the market is very small and the costs are very high. Never mind trains, even a good many pubs don't cook food fresh these days.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The problem is consistency. M&S at the station is always there and their products, while cold, are of superb quality and variety. Thus, the business of selling meals on trains really is rather niche.

They'd be better converting the kitchen to more seats and luggage space, to be honest, or a staff break area so they stop hogging passenger seats. You could "silver serve" high quality ready meals e.g. M&S ones, but you really don't need to be cooking food fresh on trains in 2023, the market is very small and the costs are very high. Never mind trains, even a good many pubs don't cook food fresh these days. That's only because we've allowed it to happen. There are more stations on both the Avanti and lner and gw roots that at best have a Starbucks franchise or at worst nothing then have branches of m and S food large enough to serve the needs of passengers like this at a decent price and whilst I agree their products are high quality they cost as much for a salad or sandwich plus various sides or drinks as you would pay in many of these pubs that don't cook food anymore and I'm not just referring to the likes of weatherspoons, and there is a limit as to how many sandwiches or salads or snack type meals somebody wants, leaving London Euston at say five 30 for Scotland with nothing more than a prawn sandwich a piece of cake and a bag of crisps will see me wanting something else to eat in Glasgow five hours later at a time when hotel restaurants are closed and a lot of the better quality takeaways are either closed or closing and your left with the likes of dodgy late night kebab or McDonald's and whilst that might appeal to some, it won't too many

Even in America who is railways are notoriously neglected they are still cooking meals on trains and the fact that we no longer do so is just very sad as there are plenty of people like me who might not even travel in first especially now the three nine zero standard class refurbishment has been completed such a high standard who words pay for a decent hot meal and I'm not talking about a prick and ping m and S1 here on a train during a journey, bear in mind that there are plenty like me who would potentially otherwise choose to fly and in the interminable wasted hours at an airport would go and get a proper meal at one of the proper meal serving outlets in the terminal prior to take off

 

[renegademaster]

Even in America who is railways are notoriously neglected they are still cooking meals on trains and the fact that we no longer do so is just very sad as there are plenty of people like me who might not even travel in first especially now the three nine zero standard class refurbishment has been completed such a high standard who words pay for a decent hot meal and I'm not talking about a prick and ping m and S1 here on a train during a journey, bear in mind that there are plenty like me who would potentially otherwise choose to fly and in the interminable wasted hours at an airport would go and get a proper meal at one of the proper meal serving outlets in the terminal prior to take off

When a train takes 20 hours you have a bit more time for a cooked meal

 

[Bletchleyite]

When a train takes 20 hours you have a bit more time for a cooked meal

This I think is the thing. There's justification for a sit down meal on a Paddington-Penzance*, or a Euston-Glasgow, or a Kings X-Edinburgh (or beyond).

Pretty much all other routes are too short for it to be really worthwhile. Euston-Manchester is only a couple of hours.

* Really, really annoyingly, I did have an opportunity to partake on the way back from Cornwall the other week, but had totally forgotten about it and thus already purchased food

 

[Blindtraveler]

I would also include routes between South Wales or London and Holyhead.

If the environmental eco warriors are going to achieve modal shift amongst the floating travelers of which I freely admit that I am one, then they need to come up with a unique selling point and whilst it might make me sound like an old-fashioned sentimentalist a good quality cooked meal on a long distance train which if necessary could be ordered in advance earlier in the day if it reduced to cost and or complexity might be the deal breaker and make people like myself regardless of whatever class of travel more prepared to set off from London at say six 30 or 7 at night for a later rival into Glasgow meaning all we then had to do was find a cab, check-in and go to bed. In reality whilst all the major stations on these routes have lots of options including m and s a lot of the station served have at best a Starbucks franchise and at worst nothing and even with the largestations there's a limit to how many snack type meals or salad boxes one actually once especially as I say if making evening journeys where the late finish or morning journeys where a days business or whatever is ahead of us and a nice breakfast that doesn't come from a cellophane wrap box or supermarket sandwich packet would also do well received by many if we were to be controversial enough to offer it

 

[DarloRich]

I do think the refurbishment of the Pendolinos has substantially improved the comfort and general ambiance of the standard class coaches

It's superb. Coupled with the fact that there's less SP so there's less chance of a table for two to myself I generally don't upgrade any more. Good seats, good legroom and non-excessive (but not dingy) lighting. Really looking forward to the 805/807s which should be the same thing with bigger windows.

Agreed - the difference with the non refurbished 9 car set I travelled on this weekend is stark. My train from Manchester was very full so SP was declassified and I was thankful to end up sitting in that section even if it was "old style".

 

[Blindtraveler]

To be completely fair the old style standard premium or first-class carriages were still doing extremely well compared to the standard class interiors that had just been hammered and in some cases we're really really thread bear