Bangor to Caernarfon line reopening?

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Since this line has began to be off-topically discussed in the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth line thread, I have set up this thread where the discussions can be continued.

 

[Polarbear]

For me, this is a line that should never have closed. Caernarfon would have made an excellent railhead for North West Wales.

I would like to see the line re-opened, but I recall that parts have been built on which could make life difficult?

 

[Tobbes]

For me, this is a line that should never have closed. Caernarfon would have made an excellent railhead for North West Wales.

I would like to see the line re-opened, but I recall that parts have been built on which could make life difficult?

Getting into the outskirts of Caernarfon is relatively straightforward, though the old station site is now a supermarket. Getting through Caernarfon is challenging but hardly impossible, given the necessary political will/cash. You'll need move the (brand new) WHR 2' gauge terminus (possibly closer to the castle?) and find a way of integrating the WHR and NR routes south of Caernarfon. So the real question for me on Bangor-Caernarfon is whether you want to get to the NE edge of Caernarfon, or actually go on somewhere else (presumably Afon Wen for Porthmadoc/Aberystwyth, though reinstating to Llanberis has it's appeal as well).

 

[Belperpete]

There is a very frequent bus service between Bangor and Caernarfon, so there may be adequate demand for a train service. But the bus services beyond Caernarfon are hourly at best, indicating that it is highly unlikely there is sufficient demand for a train service beyond Caernarfon to be viable.

The most important consideration for locating a railway station at Caernarfon is that it should be co-located with the bus station. Caernarfon is a significant hub for bus services, and many people who travel from Bangor to Caernarfon transfer onto one of the many services that then radiate out from there. They are hardly likely to use the train to get to Caernarfon if interchange with their onward bus is difficult.

 

[Ploughman]

Being that any link from Bangor to Caernarfon would form a dead end stub, would it not be better to extend the Welsh Highland to Bangor instead?

 

[Tobbes]

Being that any link from Bangor to Caernarfon would form a dead end stub, would it not be better to extend the Welsh Highland to Bangor instead?

The WHR isn't really a public transport solution, though, is it? Even a hourly Bangor-Caernarfon service 363 days a year is a massively different proposition than the tourist line model that the WHR is currently. If you were to just extend NR to Caernarfon on the old station site, then it would make sense to find a way for the WHR to be extended to meet it.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

The most important consideration for locating a railway station at Caernarfon is that it should be co-located with the bus station. Caernarfon is a significant hub for bus services, and many people who travel from Bangor to Caernarfon transfer onto one of the many services that then radiate out from there. They are hardly likely to use the train to get to Caernarfon if interchange with their onward bus is difficult.

I'm not sure where the bus station is in Caernarfon these days. Do they still use the Maes? At one time it used to be lika a vintage bus museum with companies like Purple Motors and Silver Star using decades old buses.

I guess it would have to relocate to be co-located with rail. Is there space between Morrisons and Galeri?

 

[Belperpete]

As a resident of North Wales, and very much pro-train, I have to ask myself, realistically, would I use a Caernarfon to Bangor train service? And regretfully, I have to say the answer is probably no.

1) I have a residents' pass that entitles me to free travel on the buses. It is unlikely it would be valid on the train service. (TfW bus passes are valid on some train services, but generally only those where there is minimal or no alternative bus service).

2) It is unlikely that my through bus services to Bangor would be terminated at Caernarfon, because they serve other places en-route that the train wouldn't (most importantly, Ysbyty Gwynedd, which is the main hospital for the whole of NW Wales). The bus station in Bangor is also considerably more convenient for shoppers than the train station.

3) Train services from Caernarfon will be nowhere near as frequent, or serve as many destinations, as those from Bangor. The traffic on offer from Caernarfon would never justify the same level of service as Bangor.

4) It is unlikely that the bus/train interchange at Caernarfon will be as convenient as the bus/bus interchange, unless they also move the bus station from its present, centrally-located position.

I realise that I am lucky in having a bus service that runs through Caernarfon and onto Bangor. I consider it unlikely that service would be terminated at Caernarfon if a train service started running to Bangor, for the reasons stated above. However, even if it were, there would still need to be a frequent bus service between the two places, so I would probably still transfer to a bus to Bangor, rather than the train, for the reasons above.

I realise that I am only one person, but I suspect the same logic would apply to most.

 

[Belperpete]

I'm not sure where the bus station is in Caernarfon these days. Do they still use the Maes? I guess it would have to relocate to be co-located with rail. Is there space between Morrisons and Galeri?

To call it a bus station is gilding the lily a bit, for what is basically just a row of bus stands with precious little in the way of shelter. It is in Pool Side, the road where Argos has long been located, that runs parallel to Pool Hill and Pool Street, the main shopping street. There is a pedestrian cut through direct between the two.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...d67aa000c0036b8!8m2!3d53.1401604!4d-4.2728341

Currently, due to the town-centre's one way system, most buses tend to come in and go out via the stop next to Asda, which is almost next door to Morrisons, on their way to the bus station. So putting the bus station in that area wouldn't give much benefit for shoppers wanting those stores, but would make it significantly more difficult for those wanting the town centre. So I would anticipate relocating the bus station all the way out to the Morrisons/Galeri area would cause an uproar from the town-centre traders and their customers.

The best central solution, looking at Google maps aerial view and assuming single track with a 2-car terminal platform, would be to put the station in Crown Street, at the bottom of Pool Hill and Pool Side, which is where the railway line used to run just before it went into the tunnel. The bus station could then be moved to what is currently Tan y Bont car park, between Crown Street and the Castle.

The alternative would be to put the railway station where Asda currently is, where there is more space for car parking, and arrange for all buses to stop in Bangor street, adjacent to the new railway station, on their way to and from the current town-centre bus station.

I suppose it all depends on just how much of Caernarfon people will accept being demolished in order to get a conveniently-located railway station.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The WHR isn't really a public transport solution, though, is it? Even a hourly Bangor-Caernarfon service 363 days a year is a massively different proposition than the tourist line model that the WHR is currently. If you were to just extend NR to Caernarfon on the old station site, then it would make sense to find a way for the WHR to be extended to meet it.

Plenty of other countries have narrow-gauge branches and routes in places. I've often wondered if, back in 1948 some of the narrow-gauge lines which existed had been absorbed into BR (rather than just the VoR) and developed as a larger network for rural North Wales. This could have included conversion of Bangor-Afon Wen or amalgamation of that route with the WHR, and the Conwy Valley could also have been converted.

All very much pie-in-the-sky now, of course!