Bedford Vehicles chassis codes

[GusB]

Tonight I found an old fleet book that I hadn't seen for some years and, as I was flicking through the pages, I was reminded that I'd always wanted to ask what the logic behind Bedford's chassis codes was, and in particular the "Y" series.

I've seen YLQ, YRQ, YMT, YNT and YNV used, but there doesn't seem to be any obvious pattern. Older models, such as the VAS, VAM and VAL, have an obvious length connotation in the last letter, but the Y** series just seems to be rather random.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

Bedfords were never my favourite coaches, but they were the mainstay of many independent coach fleets until their demise. Mayne's of Buckie was one such local operator that used Bedfords until the end, switching to the Dennis Javelin for a time and eventually moving on to more heavyweight vehicles.

Other than the weekly swimming run which was operated by Northern Scottish, any school/Boys' Brigade trips were usually on Bedfords. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

 

[jammy36]

The codes look random, but there is actually logic behind them. They are computer codes used by Vauxhall Motors, with the three letters being model series, engine type and gross vehicle weight. Engine wise, R = Bedford 466 cu diesel engine; L = Bedford 500 cu diesel ('red series') engine; M = Bedford 500 cu diesel ('red series') engine (uprated); and N = Bedford 500 cu turbocharged diesel ('blue series') engine. Q (later P after the letter Q was removed from the coding) 10180kg; T 12743kg. V denoted the 16000kg 'Venturer' with full air-suspension.

So YRQ is a Y-series chassis, with 466 cu engine, weighing 10180kg (10m long), whilst YMT is a Y-series chassis, with a 500 cu (160bhp) engine, weighing 12743kg (11m long).

Hope that explains (corrections welcome!)

 

[GusB]

The codes look random, but there is actually logic behind them. They are computer codes used by Vauxhall Motors, with the three letters being model series, engine type and gross vehicle weight. Engine wise, R = Bedford 466 cu diesel engine; L = Bedford 500 cu diesel ('red series') engine; M = Bedford 500 cu diesel ('red series') engine (uprated); and N = Bedford 500 cu turbocharged diesel ('blue series') engine. Q (later P after the letter Q was removed from the coding) 10180kg; T 12743kg. V denoted the 16000kg 'Venturer' with full air-suspension.

So YRQ is a Y-series chassis, with 466 cu engine, weighing 10180kg (10m long), whilst YMT is a Y-series chassis, with a 500 cu (160bhp) engine, weighing 12743kg (11m long).

Hope that explains (corrections welcome!)

Thank you! That does go some way to explaining things; I had suspected that engine sizes were factored into the equation somewhere, but had no idea how or why.

To further confuse the issue, I'm fairly sure I remember reading that the Leyland 400 engine was used in some Bedford models - was this ever the case with the "Y" models, or were they all Bedford-powered?

Either way, thanks again for your response!

 

[jammy36]

To further confuse the issue, I'm fairly sure I remember reading that the Leyland 400 engine was used in some Bedford models - was this ever the case with the "Y" models, or were they all Bedford-powered?

You are probably thinking of previous generations of Bedford vehicles.

Bedford developed their own diesel engine in about 1957 (previously Bedford were using a Perkins unit in their bus and coach chassis). This was a 300 cu 6 cylinder unit and was used in the SB (model SB1). For operators requiring more power Bedford offered a Leyland engine (a factory fitted Leyland O.350) which was given the code 8 by Bedford, so SB chassis with this engine were SB8. Bedford subsequently developed their 300 cu engine to offer an improved 330 cu unit (given the code 5, so SB5 used this engine as did the later VAS5). From 1963 Bedford offered the SB with a more powerful Leyland O.375 engine, classified as SB13.

When Bedford introduced the VAL/VAM in 1965 their largest diesel engine was the 330 cu unit mentioned above (fitted to the VAM5), but these larger coaches required bigger engines so Bedford again turned to Leyland. The VAL/VAM were offered with the Leyland. O.400 unit you mention (as VAL14/VAM14).

In 1967 Bedford developed their own big diesel engine, the 466 cu unit (referred to in my first reply) which was given the number classification 70, so VAM70, VAL70. At this point Bedford stopped offering the Leyland engine option.

 

[90sWereBetter]

A twist right at the end of their production line, the YNV was marketed as the Bedford Venturer, the first and only Bedford to actually receive a model name. I believe it was their last gasp attempt to compete with Volvo's B10M, Leyland's Tiger, and the steady flood of European chassis in the coach market. Sadly, the outdated Bedford diesel engine meant it had no real chance.

I used to have school trips where Belle Coaches in Suffolk employed their last few Bedfords on. Never understood the difference between YMT and YNT, other than that YMTs were slightly older. Indeed, there was one YMT/Plaxton Supreme which I recall still being used until early 2006, by which time it looked positively ancient.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

Some interesting reading in here about Bedford chassis

https://wikibus.blob.core.windows.net/sources77/Bedford%20Bus%20Coach.pdf

The codes look random, but there is actually logic behind them. They are computer codes used by Vauxhall Motors, with the three letters being model series, engine type and gross vehicle weight. Engine wise, R = Bedford 466 cu diesel engine; L = Bedford 500 cu diesel ('red series') engine; M = Bedford 500 cu diesel ('red series') engine (uprated); and N = Bedford 500 cu turbocharged diesel ('blue series') engine. Q (later P after the letter Q was removed from the coding) 10180kg; T 12743kg. V denoted the 16000kg 'Venturer' with full air-suspension.

So YRQ is a Y-series chassis, with 466 cu engine, weighing 10180kg (10m long), whilst YMT is a Y-series chassis, with a 500 cu (160bhp) engine, weighing 12743kg (11m long).

Hope that explains (corrections welcome!)

Was there any fitted with Cummins engines from new or were these retrofits?

 

[Mugby]

Reading through the link supplied by Tom, above, am I correct in thinking the largest diesel engine produced by Bedford was roughly 8.2 litres?

If so, that would be fairly hefty but still not a match for the heavyweights or the continental imports.

 

[jammy36]

Reading through the link supplied by Tom, above, am I correct in thinking the largest diesel engine produced by Bedford was roughly 8.2 litres?

If so, that would be fairly hefty but still not a match for the heavyweights or the continental imports.

Yes, as above the Bedford units offered in the YLQ/YMT were 500 cu in, so roughly 8.2 litres. The engine in the L delivering 138bhp, the M being uprated to 157bhp.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

Reading through the link supplied by Tom, above, am I correct in thinking the largest diesel engine produced by Bedford was roughly 8.2 litres?

If so, that would be fairly hefty but still not a match for the heavyweights or the continental imports.

I think that this typifies the attitude of British vehicle manufacturers of the 60's and 70's in general. Take what we give you not what our competitors are offering. By the time Leyland started giving operators a choice it was too late as the foreign marques had gained a significant market share and seemed to know what the future would be demanding and, it would seem, Bedford and Ford decided to throw in the towel.

Yes, as above the Bedford units offered in the YLQ/YMT were 500 cu in, so roughly 8.2 litres. The engine in the L delivering 138bhp, the M being uprated to 157bhp.

The C series Cummins was an 8.3l engine but produced 240bhp. Perhaps if they had offered that they might have stood a chance of competing.

 

[jammy36]

The C series Cummins was an 8.3l engine but produced 240bhp. Perhaps if they had offered that t

That's a little bit like comparing apples and oranges though. The normally aspirated Bedford 500 cu in engines were introduced in the mid-70s, but the Cummins C Series is a much newer engine from mid-80s or later. The turbocharged Bedford 500 cu in engine introduced in around 1980/81 (used in the YNT/YNV 'Ventura') produced 206bhp which was ample at the time (remembering that Bedford's were 'lightweight' chassis).

 

[Strathclyder]

An interesting topic on a manufacturer I've been fascinated by for a while. I, like @GusB, had always assumed that the Y-Series chassis codes were random for the sake of random, though in hindsight I should've twigged that it was Vauxhall computer codes lol

Guess this is as good a place as any to discuss one of the embodiments of 'before it's time' within this period of British bus manufacturing: the JJL. It wouldn't be far off the mark to suggest that, if it had appeared at least a decade later than it did, it would have been a runaway success like the original Dart was.

I used to have school trips where Belle Coaches in Suffolk employed their last few Bedfords on. Never understood the difference between YMT and YNT, other than that YMTs were slightly older. Indeed, there was one YMT/Plaxton Supreme which I recall still being used until early 2006, by which time it looked positively ancient.

That must've been one of the last Bedfords in use in a revenue-earning capacity here, not to mention one of the last Plaxton Supremes.

 

[Eyersey468]

An interesting topic on a manufacturer I've been fascinated by for a while. I, like @GusB, had always assumed that the Y-Series chassis codes were random for the sake of random, though in hindsight I should've twigged that it was Vauxhall computer codes lol

Guess this is as good a place as any to discuss one of the embodiments of 'before it's time' within this period of British bus manufacturing: the JJL. It wouldn't be far off the mark to suggest that, if it had appeared at least a decade later than it did, it would have been a runaway success like the original Dart was.


That must've been one of the last Bedfords in use in a revenue-earning capacity here, not to mention one of the last Plaxton Supremes.

Baldrys of Holme on Spalding Moor in Yorkshire still used Bedfords up to 2011 and had a Plaxton Supreme bodied Ford R1014 up to 2009.

 

[Strathclyder]

Baldrys of Holme on Spalding Moor in Yorkshire still used Bedfords up to 2011 and had a Plaxton Supreme bodied Ford R1014 up to 2009.

Crikey! Really does show how long they could last despite the chassis being of a lightweight design and construction.

Funny you should mention that Ford, as I've been playing with the idea of starting a thread dedicated to Ford's historic bus/coach designs with a focus on the R-Series. I may very well put one together, dependent on the interest this one receives lol

 

[Eyersey468]

Crikey! Really does show how long they could last despite the chassis being of a lightweight design and construction.

Funny you should mention that Ford, as I've been playing with the idea of starting a thread dedicated to Ford's historic bus/coach designs with a focus on the R-Series. I may very well put one together, dependent on the interest this one receives lol

Please do I for one would be interested to see it. The Ford was sadly scrapped in 2009 as it was too far gone and replaced by a C reg Bedford.

 

[Strathclyder]

Please do I for one would be interested to see it. The Ford was sadly scrapped in 2009 as it was too far gone and replaced by a C reg Bedford.

I may very well put one together, am just mindful of the fact that a few of my other similarly-themed threads in here (IE on one specific vehicle type) have somewhat fizzled out (the Roadliner and Wulfrunian threads specifically). Granted, those two were rather niche subjects, but even so lol

Ah I see. I was about to ask 'C-reg Bedford?', then I remembered Bedford ended bus/coach production in 1986 (though vehicles continued to be sold/registered into 1987/88).

 

[Eyersey468]

I may very well put one together, am just mindful of the fact that a few of my other similarly-themed threads in here (IE on one specific vehicle type) have somewhat fizzled out (the Roadliner and Wulfrunian threads specifically). Granted, those two were rather niche subjects, but even so lol

Ah I see. I was about to ask 'C-reg Bedford?', then I remembered Bedford ended bus/coach production in 1986 (though vehicles continued to be sold/registered into 1987/88).

IIRC the Bedford was registered C594GVU

 

[Strathclyder]

IIRC the Bedford was registered C594GVU

Indeed it was (linked image copyright of Flickr's EYBusman).

Baldry's Holme on Spalding Moor C594GVU.

Originally registered C337UFP new to Angel, London.

www.flickr.com

I think that this was the last Bedford coach chassis registered for the road. Not my picture.

There was one Bedford coach on a F-plate (F327 YTG; a Plaxton Paramount-bodied YNT new to East Glamorgan of Nelson in August 1988). Was latterly exported to Malta (linked image copyright of Flickr's southlancs).

FBY060

The 'newest' of the surviving Maltese Bedford YNTs is this 1988 example with Carmel Galea on Gozo, new as F327 YTG and latterly with Greggs of Boston as KSU 363.

www.flickr.com