TfGM Bee Network - fleet discussion

[MasterSpenny]

There's 82 E400 MMC coming, as well as smaller numbers of Volvo B8RLE/MCV, and a handful of E200 MMC and Merc/Mellor Stratas (I can't recall numbers offhand). Then there are of course the 50 BYD/ADL 'deckers that TfGM have purchased and allocated to Stagecoach operations in Oldham.

The numbers I have are 4 Mercedes/Mellor Stradas, 3 Enviro 200 MMCs, and 15 MCV Evoras in addition to the 82 Enviro 400 MMCs, courtesy of the following post.

The Stagecoach 2024 Bus Handbook has been published by British Bus Publishing, and that shows quite a lot of new vehicles expected at Manchester, many of these are for the new Bee Network routes, as follows:-

11798-11799 - ADL E400MMC Note there is no 11800 as this marks the change over from the 2023 batch to the 2024 commencing at 11801.
11801-11880 - ADL E400MMC
21417-21432 - Volvo B8RLE 12.9metre MCV Evora
37631-37633 - ADL E200MMC 9.7metre
44901-44904 - Mercedes-Benz Sprinter 516CDi / Mellor Strata
49901-49904 - Mellor Strata 8.7m
76101-76120 - Volvo BZL / MCV single-deck - For Stockport
84201-84250 - BYD EV/ADL Enviro E400 City - TfGM owned vehicles for Oldham Depot
86031-86180 - Volvo BZL / MCV Double-deck H42/19F for Stockport

 

[Leyland Bus]

It can't have been 4028; it already had refurb done.. As you can see from this photo the poles are yellow meaning its had a refit

It may have had yellow pole but that doesn't mean it's been refurbished inside to TfGM spec, trust me, I drove it to the wagon!

 

[47550]

So with less than two weeks until Tranche 2 goes live, what can we expect vehicles wise on go live date ? I know that there are big orders, but few of these will have been delivered (I believe 25 ish of the Oldham BYD/ADL deckers and a handful of the Stagecoach Enviro 400MMCs.

At the moment, I think there are roughly the following at each depot

Queens Road (currently Go NW - transferring to Stagecoach)
92 deckers
62 single deck
3 Versas for schools
12 Versas for the city centre free bus

Oldham (currently First - transferring to Stagecoach)
82 deckers
58 single deck
14 Versas for schools

Middleton (staying with Stagecoach)
40 deckers
9 single deck

Rochdale (currently Transdev - transferring to First but some routes staying with Transdev and operated from other depots)
6 deckers
69 single deck

 

[mangad]

Well if you hang around Stockport you'll see a LOT of Bee Network branded double decker buses operated by Stagecoach. Especially on the 192, but also on other routes. Can't help but feel the number of yellow buses in Stockport will shrink in a few weeks time!

 

[47550]

Well if you hang around Stockport you'll see a LOT of Bee Network branded double decker buses operated by Stagecoach. Especially on the 192, but also on other routes. Can't help but feel the number of yellow buses in Stockport will shrink in a few weeks time!

I agree - though they will need to replace them with something !

 

[JetBlast]

50 BYD/ADL 'deckers that TfGM have purchased and allocated to Stagecoach operations in Oldham.

Is this the same BYD who is the Chinese electric car manufacture please?

 

[Leedsbusman]

So with less than two weeks until Tranche 2 goes live, what can we expect vehicles wise on go live date ? I know that there are big orders, but few of these will have been delivered (I believe 25 ish of the Oldham BYD/ADL deckers and a handful of the Stagecoach Enviro 400MMCs.

At the moment, I think there are roughly the following at each depot

Queens Road (currently Go NW - transferring to Stagecoach)
92 deckers
62 single deck
3 Versas for schools
12 Versas for the city centre free bus

Oldham (currently First - transferring to Stagecoach)
82 deckers
58 single deck
14 Versas for schools

Middleton (staying with Stagecoach)
40 deckers
9 single deck

Rochdale (currently Transdev - transferring to First but some routes staying with Transdev and operated from other depots)
6 deckers
69 single deck

There are no Rochdale depot routes staying with Transdev. Those moving away (469, B2) are moving to either Middleton or Queens Road. There certainly isn’t 75 buses allocated, more like 45.

 

[Mollman]

Is this the same BYD who is the Chinese electric car manufacture please?

Yes it is. They produced an integral decker (now with Uno) for London and single deckers for CT4N in Nottingham before going into partnership with ADL.

 

[47550]

There are no Rochdale depot routes staying with Transdev. Those moving away (469, B2) are moving to either Middleton or Queens Road. There certainly isn’t 75 buses allocated, more like 45.

I thought 75 seemed a lot. Where is the 464 run from ?

 

[Fin447]

I thought 75 seemed a lot. Where is the 464 run from ?

Blackburn

 

[Lucy Michela]

Personally I just hope GNW don’t get anymore, their current operation is the poorest of the lot so far.

No plans to replace a load of old Ex London Vehicles and you know if they win anything else they’ll be drafting more 13 odd year old vehicles from their London operators. To think at one point they were going to use 2008 plate Optare Olympus Tridents - they just got lucky with taking on most of Diamonds Streetdecks, but failed to order enough new single deckers for Tranche 1.

Meanwhile Stagecoach are investing a huge amount into Tranche 2 in comparison!

Not sure what you mean by that tbh.

GNW are only keeping the ex-London stuff until end of 2025 latest. Go-Ahead Group are already investing a lot into London, so cant also be buying brand new stuff for Manchester at the same time.

Plus, the OmniCities are going from Tranche 3 launch too

 

[Lucy Michela]

Not sure what you mean by that tbh.

GNW are only keeping the ex-London stuff until end of 2025 latest. Go-Ahead Group are already investing a lot into London, so cant also be buying brand new stuff for Manchester at the same time.

Plus, the OmniCities are going from Tranche 3 launch too

In fact, on top of that, can I also add that GNW dont even have the oldest buses in Manchester right now, Stagecoach will have a good number of 08 to 09-plate Tridents under Bee Network.

AND what exactly is wrong with older buses? The initial brand new fleets for GNW were clearly rushed, as they already have rattles and squeaks... better to give manufacturers time to build quality products.

London Transport launched with vehicles over 20 years old, and had them for a couple years in some cases, so it's not THAT bad to see 13/14 year old ones for Bee Network

 

[KX03HZY]

Not sure what you mean by that tbh.

GNW are only keeping the ex-London stuff until end of 2025 latest. Go-Ahead Group are already investing a lot into London, so cant also be buying brand new stuff for Manchester at the same time.

Plus, the OmniCities are going from Tranche 3 launch too

Subject to business case and manufacturing capacity etc, there is nothing to stop widescale fleet investment from Go-Ahead into both London and Manchester realistically.

There are 94 new electric buses planned for the next 2 years for both tranche 1 (Vantage I believe) and 2 depots, using CRSTS funding and also a ZEBRA2 bid spoken about.

 

[Lucy Michela]

Subject to business case and manufacturing capacity etc, there is nothing to stop widescale fleet investment from Go-Ahead into both London and Manchester realistically.

There are 94 new electric buses planned for the next 2 years for both tranche 1 (Vantage I believe) and 2 depots, using CRSTS funding and also a ZEBRA2 bid spoken about.

Oh for sure. New Buses just cant happen overnight, and tbh, many of these old folk around seem to moan about everything, including these new buses being worse. Why bother investing if people are gonna be like that?

 

[northwichcat]

Why bother investing if people are gonna be like that tbh

A lot of complaints about new vehicles seems to relate to the interior spec or the ride quality. These often aren't faults of new vehicles but operators trying to save money by choosing the cheapest interior spec, or using a bus designed for urban use on dual carriageways.

Metrolink trams are a good example of cheap interior spec. Just compare the interior spec to that of Edinburgh trams. It's like TfGM decided Metrolink has already built up usage so we want a cheap spec to make it as cost-effective as possible, while in Edinburgh they needed to build up patronage so made sure the trams are comfortable to ride.

 

[stait.john]

First: currently in for paint are 33854 and 47629.

 

[Leyland Bus]

First: currently in for paint are 33854 and 47629.

At Mellors?

 

[Lewisham2221]

First Streetlites 47632 and 47634 are the latest to go through the paintshop at Adderley Green

 

[WWH44L]

With just over a week to go, are we any wiser as to where the remaining Go North West vehicles from queens Road are going? Not those earmarked to be loaned to Stagecoach or those moving to the schools unit at Heywood but in particular the E200s, Streetlites. B7RLEs & Evosetis.

 

[stait.john]

At Mellors?

47629 at Mellors, 33854 at Adderley Green

 

[Geeves]

With just over a week to go, are we any wiser as to where the remaining Go North West vehicles from queens Road are going? Not those earmarked to be loaned to Stagecoach or those moving to the schools unit at Heywood but in particular the E200s, Streetlites. B7RLEs & Evosetis.

I could be wrong but I was under the impression the Evosetis would be on temporary loan to Stagecoach in the short term after that I'm not sure. Maybe they will move over to Bolton?

 

[WWH44L]

I could be wrong but I was under the impression the Evosetis would be on temporary loan to Stagecoach in the short term after that I'm not sure. Maybe they will move over to Bolton?

It’s been reported that around 8 of these are to go to Heywood for schools but no idea where the rest will go as they are not on the loan list to Stagecoach. Bolton would the logical idea though.

 

[stait.john]

47629 returned to Oldham now with 47610/47611 in for paint at MellorBus.

47630 in for repaint at Adderley Green

 

[WWH44L]

Looking at the tracking for the Citaros based at Bolton, out of the 26 allocated (either been in service or yet to), only 5 are tracking today which seems to be a regular occurrence. Never seems to be a full compliment of these out and about. Are these still as troublesome as reported?

 

[darylyates17]

Is 40732 currently being refurbed into Bee Network spec?

 

[Lewisham2221]

E400 33852 has just arrived at Adderley Green for repaint

 

[Redmike]

A lot of E400 MMCs have moved from Middleton to Stockport presumably to replace some of the 20 reg Stockport examples that are now on Bee Network livery.

 

[Class 466]

A lot of E400 MMCs have moved from Middleton to Stockport presumably to replace some of the 20 reg Stockport examples that are now on Bee Network livery.

Most of the 17 plate are going there to replace the Yellow 20 plates - an exception being 10859 (SN17 MKF) which is destined for Queens Road.

 

[xitz2012@gmail]

Most of the 17 plate are going there to replace the Yellow 20 plates - an exception being 10859 (SN17 MKF) which is destined for Queens Road.

Ooh interesting! Has 10859 gone for repaint/refurbishment?

 

[Lucy Michela]

Aparently 21367 is on loan from Stagecoach East, currently based at Hyde Road now, but will transfer to Queen's for launch of Tranche 2

https://twitter.com/skmpub/status/1767861806863626725