Begging getting worse on trains?

[43096]

And one must wonder what the money is spent on.

Try offering to buy them a cup of tea or food and see what reaction you get...

 

[Bletchleyite]

People are gullible. Look at the Captain Tom charity saga.

But if people want to help vulnerable people there are respectable, transparent charities out there. People giving them money are a huge part of the problem and it just creates a market for professional begging and therefore organised crime.

Totally agree. I never give to beggars and never have, but am happy to donate to homelessness charities who can ensure the money is properly spent, ideally smaller ones so more of the money goes to the cause.

I'd consider buying a homeless person a sandwich or a cup of tea though I've never actually done it, but would never give cash.

The one I've always found odd was a woman who used to go around Milton Keynes asking for a very specific sum for a bus fare which I happened to know wasn't one of the fares. I never quite had the guts to stop a bus, buy a day ticket and see her reaction on offering that instead.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

There's a old guy that lives in our street. Owns his detached house outright and has a better pension than I'll ever see. He mentioned to me a few times that he went into London to work, using his Freedom Pass, but when I asked him what his job was, he was evasive, but he did tell me that he earned around £40 a day or so.

A year or so ago I was in the West End and who did I see on the pavement with a cardboard placard saying that he's hungry and needs money? My neighbour.

 

[Thirteen]

I am always amazed (no idea why, I've seen it happen so often) that people give so much.

I'd understand a pound or two pounds but not 20 quid to a beggar/homeless person but maybe I'm just a bit jaded and cynical.

 

[BJames]

There's a old guy that lives in our street. Owns his detached house outright and has a better pension than I'll ever see. He mentioned to me a few times that he went into London to work, using his Freedom Pass, but when I asked him what his job was, he was evasive, but he did tell me that he earned around £40 a day or so.

A year or so ago I was in the West End and who did I see on the pavement with a cardboard placard saying that he's hungry and needs money? My neighbour.

The thing about freedom pass has just reminded me that my dad regularly sees these beggars working their way through traffic on the A406 who appear to have problems with their leg/shakes etc - the other week one of the regular faces he sees comes onto his bus, tries to get on without paying by begging, but he immediately knew something was a bit strange as they didn't have the same leg problems and shakes as before, so he didn't back down and told them to pay or get off. Tapped oyster card - had over £18 on the card. He said unbelievable - but I'm not surprised at all.

 

[MattRat]

I'd understand a pound or two pounds but not 20 quid to a beggar/homeless person but maybe I'm just a bit jaded and cynical.

It's not cynical at all. It's the sort of thing you see all the time. Rich people giving to who they see as the poor, so they can tell all their rich friends about what a good person they are. It's for clout, nothing more, and the more money you give, the more clout you get.

Of course, having never met a real poor person, they are also very easy to scam.

 

[jon0844]

It's not cynical at all. It's the sort of thing you see all the time. Rich people giving to who they see as the poor, so they can tell all their rich friends about what a good person they are. It's for clout, nothing more, and the more money you give, the more clout you get.

Of course, having never met a real poor person, they are also very easy to scam.

I'm sure that's absolutely true, but when I used to assist with a charity collection at Christmas for our town council, we went around most of the residential streets dressed up (with a Santa on the back of a flat-bed with carols playing loudly) and it was the less affluent streets that often gave the most.

Obviously not always the case, but I did it for a few years and it was fairly consistent.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Try offering to buy them a cup of tea or food and see what reaction you get...

Totally agree. I never give to beggars and never have, but am happy to donate to homelessness charities who can ensure the money is properly spent, ideally smaller ones so more of the money goes to the cause.

I'd consider buying a homeless person a sandwich or a cup of tea though I've never actually done it, but would never give cash.

The one I've always found odd was a woman who used to go around Milton Keynes asking for a very specific sum for a bus fare which I happened to know wasn't one of the fares. I never quite had the guts to stop a bus, buy a day ticket and see her reaction on offering that instead.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, you should always ask them before buying food or drink for them, because it's quite common for people to do this and there's only so much they can eat or drink in a given period before you're essentially just throwing it in the bin. If they're genuinely homeless, being handed their fourth cuppa in an hour from someone who barely speaks to them can do more harm than good. Even if they do "need" it, being given food by a well-meaning passer by means they can stay where they are and continue begging, when going to a shelter or soup-kitchen would be better for them in the long run- because while there they may gain access to genuine support services such as drug and alcohol treatment.

Obviously you shouldn't do anything that puts you in danger, but if you have the confidence and time to do so, having a friendly chat is a bigger act of kindness than dropping a couple of quid in their hat.

 

[Thirteen]

I'm sure that's absolutely true, but when I used to assist with a charity collection at Christmas for our town council, we went around most of the residential streets dressed up (with a Santa on the back of a flat-bed with carols playing loudly) and it was the less affluent streets that often gave the most.

Obviously not always the case, but I did it for a few years and it was fairly consistent.

People with lots of money tend to be the one who are tightwads.

 

[ExRes]

People with lots of money tend to be the one who are tightwads.

That's how they become people with lots of money

 

[Peter Sarf]

It's not cynical at all. It's the sort of thing you see all the time. Rich people giving to who they see as the poor, so they can tell all their rich friends about what a good person they are. It's for clout, nothing more, and the more money you give, the more clout you get.

Of course, having never met a real poor person, they are also very easy to scam.

Mini cab drivers will tell you it is poorer people who tip and don't expect the driver to carry the luggage/shopping.

If you are careful with money then you will have more to be careful with !.

 

[AlastairFraser]

In terms of the begging on trains, it tends to be a mostly London thing, in my (and other forum members') experience. Haven't seen it once since moving up to the NW.

However, the stations can be quite bad for begging.
Man Picc has quite a few professional beggars outside, along with genuine homeless people.
The Wigan stations are more riddled with thieves in my experience, although the presence of a BTP office at North Western significantly mitigates this issue.

Worst of all up here is Preston, which I commute from most frequently.
It has a large well-organised begging operation at all hours of the day in the city centre, but just outside the ticket office at the station is a favoured location - this tends to be the more passive story-telling beggars.
But, at the top of the ramp, there are a gang of professional beggars with their props - usually crackheads, but they have a whole set of props. A wheelchair, a crutch, bandages etc....

Due to the crackhead and ASB issues in the city centre, I used to have some sympathy and occasionally buy food or drinks upon request, but it soon faded after I saw some of the regulars suddenly rise from his wheelchair or crutch and miraculously gain use of their legs!
For any visitors to Preston, the genuine beggars usually stay out of the town centre to avoid these lot.

 

[ScottGallagher]

Was some years back now but there was a time on the tube (probably Piccadilly line) where there was a woman who walked through the train carrying a months old baby holding out an empty Ribena carton. Infuriating and tragic at the same time.

 

[stuu]

I'm sure that's absolutely true, but when I used to assist with a charity collection at Christmas for our town council, we went around most of the residential streets dressed up (with a Santa on the back of a flat-bed with carols playing loudly) and it was the less affluent streets that often gave the most.

Obviously not always the case, but I did it for a few years and it was fairly consistent.

I learnt that fairly early on in life: did a paper round which covered a very affluent street and a council estate. Christmas tips came primarily from the council houses. I have seen similar examples in life and in the media ever since

 

[BJames]

In terms of the begging on trains, it tends to be a mostly London thing, in my (and other forum members') experience. Haven't seen it once since moving up to the NW.

However, the stations can be quite bad for begging.
Man Picc has quite a few professional beggars outside, along with genuine homeless people.
The Wigan stations are more riddled with thieves in my experience, although the presence of a BTP office at North Western significantly mitigates this issue.

Worst of all up here is Preston, which I commute from most frequently.
It has a large well-organised begging operation at all hours of the day in the city centre, but just outside the ticket office at the station is a favoured location - this tends to be the more passive story-telling beggars.
But, at the top of the ramp, there are a gang of professional beggars with their props - usually crackheads, but they have a whole set of props. A wheelchair, a crutch, bandages etc....

Due to the crackhead and ASB issues in the city centre, I used to have some sympathy and occasionally buy food or drinks upon request, but it soon faded after I saw some of the regulars suddenly rise from his wheelchair or crutch and miraculously gain use of their legs!
For any visitors to Preston, the genuine beggars usually stay out of the town centre to avoid these lot.

A lot of people in London seem to overcome their physical impediments in the early evening, and regain them the next morning. My dad has seen them disappear behind a bush and reappear with a crutch and severe shakes in the space of 10 seconds for example. Sadly it's why I don't give any money, as it simply fuels this and those who are truly in need of help are better served by dedicated charities.

 

[ExRes]

Was some years back now but there was a time on the tube (probably Piccadilly line) where there was a woman who walked through the train carrying a months old baby holding out an empty Ribena carton. Infuriating and tragic at the same time.

Infuriating yes, tragic I'm not so sure, the baby was nothing more than a prop used by the Eastern European gang, they probably all drove home to Hampstead every evening

 

[Sad Sprinter]

In terms of the begging on trains, it tends to be a mostly London thing, in my (and other forum members') experience. Haven't seen it once since moving up to the NW.

However, the stations can be quite bad for begging.
Man Picc has quite a few professional beggars outside, along with genuine homeless people.
The Wigan stations are more riddled with thieves in my experience, although the presence of a BTP office at North Western significantly mitigates this issue.

Worst of all up here is Preston, which I commute from most frequently.
It has a large well-organised begging operation at all hours of the day in the city centre, but just outside the ticket office at the station is a favoured location - this tends to be the more passive story-telling beggars.
But, at the top of the ramp, there are a gang of professional beggars with their props - usually crackheads, but they have a whole set of props. A wheelchair, a crutch, bandages etc....

Due to the crackhead and ASB issues in the city centre, I used to have some sympathy and occasionally buy food or drinks upon request, but it soon faded after I saw some of the regulars suddenly rise from his wheelchair or crutch and miraculously gain use of their legs!
For any visitors to Preston, the genuine beggars usually stay out of the town centre to avoid these lot.

I once saw a beggar near me and his female companion roll out of the train station early in the morning, seemingly happy as Larry, with a bagful of cushions and snacks for the day ahead. Saw him once get up, pull an iPod out of his pocket and put his earphones in for some tunes.

Although the homelessness seems to be getting worse, I saw men sleeping under the trees in Clapham Common the other day.

 

[AlastairFraser]

A lot of people in London seem to overcome their physical impediments in the early evening, and regain them the next morning. My dad has seen them disappear behind a bush and reappear with a crutch and severe shakes in the space of 10 seconds for example. Sadly it's why I don't give any money, as it simply fuels this and those who are truly in need of help are better served by dedicated charities.

And when they refuse food or a ticket, then you know what their real intentions are, usually.

I once saw a beggar near me and his female companion roll out of the train station early in the morning, seemingly happy as Larry, with a bagful of cushions and snacks for the day ahead. Saw him once get up, pull an iPod out of his pocket and put his earphones in for some tunes.

Although the homelessness seems to be getting worse, I saw men sleeping under the trees in Clapham Common the other day.

Perhaps he was using his iPod to practise his operatic dying lament act that's a favourite of the professional begging industry.
The homelessness certainly is getting worse, but the Big Issue sellers are another legitimate way to help those in need, among other options.

 

[185]

Few are really homeless.

Living in a major city, around 200m from a housing association's 'hostel' occupied 100% by street beggars, living in private rooms, with three meals a day, for long terms - some resident for 10/15 years... I see them all 'commuting' to their beg, twice a day with blankets & begging paraphernalia, buying their drugs in the back streets and traipsing back home every day. Indeed, most position themselves in and around a nearby major station and BTP are ordinarily powerless to charge them with any offence.

Society needs to change - lock them up in a specialist facility to get them off the drugs, train them with job skills and release them on the understanding that if they go back on the drugs they lose their liberty again.

 

[mrmartin]

Few are really homeless.

Living in a major city, around 200m from a housing association's 'hostel' occupied 100% by street beggars, living in private rooms, with three meals a day, for long terms - some resident for 10/15 years... I see them all 'commuting' to their beg, twice a day with blankets & begging paraphernalia, buying their drugs in the back streets and traipsing back home every day. Indeed, most position themselves in and around a nearby major station and BTP are ordinarily powerless to charge them with any offence.

Society needs to change - lock them up in a specialist facility to get them off the drugs, train them with job skills and release them on the understanding that if they go back on the drugs they lose their liberty again.

Yes, thank god there are no drugs in secure units like prisons, such an easy answer!

 

[ScottGallagher]

Infuriating yes, tragic I'm not so sure, the baby was nothing more than a prop used by the Eastern European gang, they probably all drove home to Hampstead every evening

Tragic in the sense a baby is being used and carted around the tube all day by a dirty vagrant instead of your run of the mill makeshift sign. I've little sympathy for the beggars but the footsoldiers like this are more likely to go back to Roma tent city in Marble Arch than Hampstead hoping to avoid a beating for not meeting their days target.

 

[markymark2000]

Best one that I had the other week was at Birmingham New Street, a chap approached me and said 'I am not asking for money, please can you get me a Five Guys milkshake.' I was taken aback. I thought, what absolute cheek. Five Guys Milkshakes aren't cheap, he would have a much better chance on the other side of the station at the infamous McDonalds on the ramp.

 

[zero]

The best one I've seen was in Germany where the beggar selected a ticket at the ticket machine and put some coins in, then showed people he needed another 10 euros but only asked each person for 1 or 2 euros. Once the area was reasonably clear of people he cancelled the purchase and took all the money. I guess if someone offered him 10 euros he wouldn't have been happy

 

[wildcard]

Just to add - a few months ago I did see quite a distressing sight (probably on the Met/Circle between Euston and Paddington). A youngish man looking for money - a downcast gaze and almost too ashamed to ask for money - I don't think he even had the energy to talk. He looked totally beaten down and resigned to his fate. And clearly in very poor health - I noticed his feet were so swollen - no socks - they couldn't fit into his trainers so he shuffled along using them rather like slippers. As I recall we all ignored him - maybe a kindly tourist (?) ( a young girl with a non UK accent ) offered something, I can't remember . That may have been another instance.

 

[Fisherman80]

In terms of the begging on trains, it tends to be a mostly London thing, in my (and other forum members') experience. Haven't seen it once since moving up to the NW.

However, the stations can be quite bad for begging.
Man Picc has quite a few professional beggars outside, along with genuine homeless people.
The Wigan stations are more riddled with thieves in my experience, although the presence of a BTP office at North Western significantly mitigates this issue.

Worst of all up here is Preston, which I commute from most frequently.
It has a large well-organised begging operation at all hours of the day in the city centre, but just outside the ticket office at the station is a favoured location - this tends to be the more passive story-telling beggars.
But, at the top of the ramp, there are a gang of professional beggars with their props - usually crackheads, but they have a whole set of props. A wheelchair, a crutch, bandages etc....

Due to the crackhead and ASB issues in the city centre, I used to have some sympathy and occasionally buy food or drinks upon request, but it soon faded after I saw some of the regulars suddenly rise from his wheelchair or crutch and miraculously gain use of their legs!
For any visitors to Preston, the genuine beggars usually stay out of the town centre to avoid these lot.

I've seen this in Preston Alistair and what you say is 100% correct.
When I've travelled from Bradford to Glasgow via Preston I usually go to the small Sainsburys in the city centre if I have a lengthy wait in Preston.
If anyone can walk from the station to Sainsburys and back again without being harrased by so called homeless people I would be absolutely amazed.
My home city of Bradford has a bad reputation but Preston is much worse in my opinion.

 

[AlastairFraser]

I've seen this in Preston Alistair and what you say is 100% correct.
When I've travelled from Bradford to Glasgow via Preston I usually go to the small Sainsburys in the city centre if I have a lengthy wait in Preston.
If anyone can walk from the station to Sainsburys and back again without being harrased by so called homeless people I would be absolutely amazed.
My home city of Bradford has a bad reputation but Preston is much worse in my opinion.

Tbf, they're not aggressive, so there's no risk if you say no.
But it's not a good impression for first time visitors.

 

[Egg Centric]

To add a bit of "balance" - I would invite anyone claiming "proper" street people are minting it to sit with one for a few hours and see what it's like. I did this with a couple of big issue sellers once for a few hours outside a London terminal and it certainly wasn't raining money!

Not that I am suggesting giving money to beggars of course, for the reasons given by others. And certainly not organised roma crime gangs. But "honest" begging certainly isn't an easy life and if you think it is I invite you to try it - after all there's no barriers to entry

 

[WestCoast]

Today:

Beggar on District Line, I could hear him quite literally shouting his sob story down the carriages after we left Fulham Broadway, but he reached my carriage (third from the front) just as we were leaving Parsons Green. The next minute and a half was quite something. A young man (I'd say around 20 years old) said that he had no change, and the beggar moved on down the carriage but then turned around and repeated the same thing, whilst this same gentleman was still in view. He said again that he had no change, and the beggar lost it. Launched into an absolute tirade against this poor young man, screaming that (imagine an obscenity between each of these words) he heard him the first time and that by repeating it he was just making the situation worse for him and everyone around him. The young man then said fair enough but the beggar seemed to think he said f**k off and then said that he would smash his face in and started squaring up to him, screaming obscenities for a good 45 seconds before then storming off down the train.

We then arrived at Putney Bridge where I alighted but as I did so I did ask the gentleman if he was ok, and said politely that as hard as it may seem, in the future the best thing to do is not say you have nothing but simply ignore them. I've never seen a beggar be this verbally aggressive, I truly thought he was seconds away from throwing a punch - I could hear the anger lacing his voice. I understand that he may well have been genuinely homeless and fallen on hard times but this was quite something to witness.

I would have reported that to BTP even just so that there was a record of that guy, very much fits the description of aggressive behaviour / panhandling! No excuse, hard times or not.

In my experience using the transport in continental European cities especially places like Rome and Paris, the vast majority of locals completely ignore all the beggars as if they are invisible so they’ve resorted to all sorts of weird scams with tourists (which is a problem in itself). I know it might seem very un-British but I actually agree with this approach and do not feel compelled to interact with them at all, a shake of the head is enough if they’re persistent. I have actually supported a homeless charity instead through a couple of fundraising events and I know that is a much better way to support people in genuine need.

 

[Dr_Paul]

To add a bit of "balance" - I would invite anyone claiming "proper" street people are minting it to sit with one for a few hours and see what it's like. I did this with a couple of big issue sellers once for a few hours outside a London terminal and it certainly wasn't raining money!

Not that I am suggesting giving money to beggars of course, for the reasons given by others. And certainly not organised roma crime gangs. But "honest" begging certainly isn't an easy life and if you think it is I invite you to try it - after all there's no barriers to entry

I'm also somewhat sceptical of the stories I've read of the years about beggars making a small fortune standing cap-in-hand in the West End or outside a railway station. It must be one of the most soul-destroying means of making one's way.

 

[jon0844]

Whether they make a small fortune depends on how long they beg each day. If they are happy to call it a day once they've collected £20-30 then they aren't getting rich, but it still gives enough money to perhaps fund a habit. When needing more money, just go out again.

A neighbour who was outed on Facebook for camping outside Asda wasn't there all day every day, but often enough that he got noticed and eventually someone realised he was living in a flat and receiving various benefits. He wasn't homeless, but effectively begging became his day job.