Benefits Advice Forum Recommendation?

[gray1404]

I am trying to help a friend with a situation. Does anyone know of any online forums that are good for benefits advice? Would be post if I could post some specific details about his situation. Thanks.

 

[Busaholic]

I am trying to help a friend with a situation. Does anyone know of any online forums that are good for benefits advice? Would be post if I could post some specific details about his situation. Thanks.

The Citizen's Advice Bureau (CAB) sites would be my first point of call. When I worked in the field, a long time ago, the Child Poverty Action Group (CPAG) were the best source of advice with their Benefits Guides, which even got published by Penguin Books later. I see they still exist, so maybe a look on their website too?

 

[gray1404]

Thanks for your reply. The problem is I have a very specific question about whether a situation may affect his entitlement to benefits so I'm wondering if there is a forum I could ask some experts on really. I do not think his situation would be covered by any generic guide.

 

[Busaholic]

Thanks for your reply. The problem is I have a very specific question about whether a situation may affect his entitlement to benefits so I'm wondering if there is a forum I could ask some experts on really. I do not think his situation would be covered by any generic guide.

I'd definitely give the CAB a ring: if they don't know, they might either find out or suggest someone more expert. Neighbourhood Law Centres have almost disappeared thanks to funding cuts (in reality, because their ethos is directly contrary to that of our government.)

 

[gray1404]

Thanks. I notice there is a benefits section on the moneysavingexpert forum but some of the posters are very nasty.

 

[Busaholic]

Thanks. I notice there is a benefits section on the moneysavingexpert forum but some of the posters are very nasty.

And may not be in full command of the facts: as a generalisation, the nastier, the more ignorant I suspect.

 

[ainsworth74]

Thanks for your reply. The problem is I have a very specific question about whether a situation may affect his entitlement to benefits so I'm wondering if there is a forum I could ask some experts on really. I do not think his situation would be covered by any generic guide.

What's the issue?

 

[gg1]

If your query relates to any form of disability benefit the Youreable forum is quite good.

For general benefits advice the MSE forums do have some very knowledgeable people, but as you've already discovered they also have more than their fair share of obnoxious tossers.

 

[gray1404]

Totally agree the nastier the less likely they are to be in full knowledge of the facts.

@ainsworth74 Thanks for asking what the issue is. My friend is getting Income Based ESA (Support Group), PIP and Housing Benefit. He's started a course with the local College part time online (distance learning). They've invited him to apply for a small College bursary. Exact amount would be determined on application. However in the small print on the bursary application form online it says that any funds paid out may need to be reported to public authorities (such as HMRC/DWP etc). He's asked me if getting the bursary would effect his benefits? I've been trying to get an answer to this both in terms of the bursary effecting the amount of any benefits he's entitled to but also I would not want him to suddenly be getting told he's not allowed to study or that he might be work ready (he isn't).

Thanks, I'll check out Youreable - not heard of that before. I think I'll avoid MSE on this occasion as this is far from a general question, quite specific.

Thanks guys!

 

[AlterEgo]

Totally agree the nastier the less likely they are to be in full knowledge of the facts.

@ainsworth74 Thanks for asking what the issue is. My friend is getting Income Based ESA (Support Group), PIP and Housing Benefit. He's started a course with the local College part time online (distance learning). They've invited him to apply for a small College bursary. Exact amount would be determined on application. However in the small print on the bursary application form online it says that any funds paid out may need to be reported to public authorities (such as HMRC/DWP etc). He's asked me if getting the bursary would effect his benefits? I've been trying to get an answer to this both in terms of the bursary effecting the amount of any benefits he's entitled to but also I would not want him to suddenly be getting told he's not allowed to study or that he might be work ready (he isn't).

Thanks, I'll check out Youreable - not heard of that before. I think I'll avoid MSE on this occasion as this is far from a general question, quite specific.

Thanks guys!

I can raise my hand here and say I used to process ESA many years ago, in the early days of its implementation to replace Incapacity Benefit.

Unfortunately, a bursary is distinct from a loan or grant in that it is almost always considered income for the purposes of means-tested benefits, so it would likely affect his payments.

I can't recall whether undertaking study would affect his perceived eligibility for Work-Related Activity; this is a more specific question to which the answer may have changed anyway since my days (nearly 15 years ago!) working in this field.

 

[gray1404]

I can raise my hand here and say I used to process ESA many years ago, in the early days of its implementation to replace Incapacity Benefit.

Unfortunately, a bursary is distinct from a loan or grant in that it is almost always considered income for the purposes of means-tested benefits, so it would likely affect his payments.

I can't recall whether undertaking study would affect his perceived eligibility for Work-Related Activity; this is a more specific question to which the answer may have changed anyway since my days (nearly 15 years ago!) working in this field.

Thank you this is very useful and thank you for pointing out that a bursary would effect payments. I'll suggest he continues with the course but doesn't bother applying for the bursary.

 

[ainsworth74]

@ainsworth74 Thanks for asking what the issue is. My friend is getting Income Based ESA (Support Group), PIP and Housing Benefit. He's started a course with the local College part time online (distance learning). They've invited him to apply for a small College bursary. Exact amount would be determined on application. However in the small print on the bursary application form online it says that any funds paid out may need to be reported to public authorities (such as HMRC/DWP etc). He's asked me if getting the bursary would effect his benefits?

Apologies for the delay yesterday got away from me.

The following obviously isn't legal advice and certainly isn't given any professional capacity it's simply my opinion.

In some respects UC is easier in these circumstances as the rules were basically written, quite sensibly, that unless it's specifically stated as counting then any random bits of income do not count. Sadly for our purposes ESA Regulations are written the opposite way round meaning that unless it's specifically stated that it is disregarded then it counts which makes it a bit trickier sometimes to be sure (the list on UC being nice and short whereas the list for ESA is rather voluminous as it has to cover everything that they don't want counted as income including other benefits like PIP).

In any event this situation is governed by the Employment and Support Allowance Regulations 2008 (note that the ESA Regulations 2013 apply only to New Style ESA which as you say he's getting income based do not apply here). Specifically Schedule 8 of the above regulations details which sources of income (other than earnings) can be disregarded for the purposes of calculating entitlement to ESA.

Having glanced through Schedule 8 I cannot see any grounds for it being disregarded. The most relevant paragraph appears to be Paragraph 13(1) and 13(2) but I don't think any of the listed exemptions would apply from a quick glance at the legislation referred to in the relevant sub-paragraphs (you can obviously ignore any acts which relate to Scotland unless they live in Scotland of course!). So it may well count as income. That being said I do wonder, especially if it is a one off payment whether instead it might not count as capital. In that event, even if it is not disregarded (see Schedule 9), it would only be come relevant if it pushed the individuals capital resources (savings, investments, cash, current accounts, etc) above £6,000. But I'm not confident on how that might come down and it would probably have to wait for a decision from the DWP one way or the other. It's worth noting that the rules do make provision for things to be considered over a longer period (for example student loan payments are averaged out over the course year even though they might come in three payments) so it's possible it might be capital but I don't think I'd be confident running that argument.

A more general rule of thumb in regards to things like support for students is that if the payment is intended to cover course costs (books, exam fees, travel to/from the intuition, etc) then it can be disregarded. If it's to help with living costs then it cannot be.

Obviously however if they can do without the bursary the safest course is not to apply and I think, from what you've said that is probably the right call here. As certainly I can see no obvious grounds for it being disregarded as income nor capital (it's just that if it was capital it wouldn't matter if it pushed his total resources above £6,000).

I've been trying to get an answer to this both in terms of the bursary effecting the amount of any benefits he's entitled to but also I would not want him to suddenly be getting told he's not allowed to study or that he might be work ready (he isn't).

The second part is a question without an answer in my view! The DWP can summon an ESA claimant for reassessment at any time (any periods given for an award are simply advisory outside a few cases of severe life long illness but even there I'm not sure if that ever got beyond a pilot for switching off reassessment). Receipt of information that someone is now studying might trigger a reassessment but equally it might not. If reassessed the usual risks apply regarding the odds of being found fit for work or not. Certainly studying would potentially count against someone but not necessarily. It all depends on the context. This applies also to those who are thinking of doing some voluntary work or even picking up a few hours of paid work (previously known as 'permitted work').

An example I like to give to try and illustrate the concept is of an individual who has significant anxiety but is physically fit as a fiddle. If they started volunteering at a local charity shop questions might be asked. But when you dig into it and find out that they only ever work the same shift with the same people in the stock room, they never have to interact with the public, they get picked up and dropped off by a family member, indeed the first few times they attend that family member stayed parked outside so that they knew they could escape immediately if they needed it becomes clear that sure they're doing some tough physical work but big adjustments had to be made to take regard of their mental health. So are they fit for work? No, probably not. If on the other hand this person said that they had serious anxiety but it turned out they spent four hours manning the till dealing with customers? That suggests that perhaps they are fit for work because the impact of their condition seems quite mild!!

Same thing applies to being a student. If reassessed then the fact that they are a part-time student will be relevant to their assessment of whether or not they have Limited Capability for Work. But context is king.

The only other thing to note is that a full time student is only entitled to remain on ESA if they also have an award of PIP (which your friend does). That also passports them to have Limited Capability for Work (they still have to be assessed for the Support Group). A part time student has no such restriction (and does not benefit from a passport to LCW either!). The decision on whether a course is full or part time usually rests on how the course is described by the institution.

Hope this is useful.

The Citizen's Advice Bureau (CAB) sites would be my first point of call. When I worked in the field, a long time ago, the Child Poverty Action Group (CPAG) were the best source of advice with their Benefits Guides, which even got published by Penguin Books later. I see they still exist, so maybe a look on their website too?

CPAG do indeed still exist and their handbook remains an invaluable resource to doing the job! However CPAG are mostly a second tier agency these days. They advise the advisor and do not really help the public much if at all directly. Their website is certainly geared for a professional seeking guidance rather than a member of the public in indeed of advice.

As for CAB I have a significant fondness for them and they remain a valuable service. But the cumulative impact of funding cuts and a centre that is disinterested in providing expert advice (for those unaware local CABs are basically franchises as they are all independent charities in their own right but get significant support from National Citizens Advice) to the public and would rather focus on what brings in good PR (rather than what makes a real difference) mean that for many CABs they struggle to offer much beyond quite generic advice and form filling. Which isn't to suggest they're waste of time by any stretch as each is different but sometimes they can be a bit disappointing.

 

[gray1404]

@ainsworth74 Thanks very much indeed for your detailed reply, research and drawing on your experience. I am most grateful indeed! I think for the reasons you have stated it is best he does not apply for the money. This money would not be awarded for a specific purpose like books or a laptop and, therefore, I too would be concerned it may well count as "income." Either way there would be no way of knowing until the DWP made a decision and it would not be worth the stress of him waiting for that decision and ending up in the same position finance wise if they decided it was income and deducted benefits. In my former university days reading Law for my LLB we had a student law clinic that members of the public could access. I recall a number of people who would be waiting for a decision from the DM (often following involvement from Customer Compliance) and it really would stress them out plus the waiting game.

What does concern me more widely is this studying triggering a reassessment for my friend. We would have to cross that bridge when we came to it but hopefully he is left alone. However thank you for pointing out that context is king. In this case, having reported back to him about my paragraph above, I discovered that as well as being a part time course it is also a distance learning course from home without the need to attend college in person. I am therefore quite reassured that if ever needed a suitable explanation and context could be given.

Thanks again for your help.