Blackpool Transport

[Whistler40145]

I have heard rumours that there is a lot of unrest at Blackpool Transport relating to new contracts with staff more or less being told accept the new contracts or you have x number of days before being sacked. Isn't this classed as constructive dismissal? Could this cause an all-out strike and would Stagecoach staff come-out in sympathy?

Also, another rumour is that Blackpool Transport are up to their necks in debt and that they could be a takeover by Stagecoach?

 

[Crimson_Quiff]

Heard nothing of the such. Could be rumour? But I shall keep thy's ears open!

 

[WestCoast]

Can't speak for any staff issues but...

Without a doubt, the tramway is the thing that has scared the likes of Stagecoach and Arriva away from buying the firm from the council for all these years.

Stagecoach being cosy with the council? Somehow, I don't think so!

 

[Whistler40145]

All I know is Blackpool Council only own 49% of Blackpool Transport, but unsure who actually owns the remaining 51%.

Also, they employed a so called "Hatchet Man" to streamline the services to such an extent that it has left some areas with a very poor service.

 

[WestCoast]

All I know is Blackpool Council only own 49% of Blackpool Transport, but unsure who actually owns the remaining 51%..

As far as I am aware, Blackpool Transport Services Ltd is a limited company wholly owned by Blackpool Council (i.e. they own ALL the shares). The tramway infrastructure is directly owned by the Council.

Also, they employed a so called "Hatchet Man" to streamline the services to such an extent that it has left some areas with a very poor service.

Yes, last year there was a rationalisation, wherby fleet and staff reductions took place, through decreased frequencies and curtailed/merged routes.

One of my local buses is now operated by Coastal Coaches instead, on behalf of LCC. There was a lot of route "trimming" in the South Fylde (i.e. commercial routes being withdrawn) and then BTS hoping that LCC would pay them to operate. Instead LCC just awarded contracts to Coastal Coaches.

 

[Whistler40145]

Would Stagecoach offer better services?

 

[WestCoast]

Would Stagecoach offer better services?

Having used the 61 and 68 on a regular basis, I would be strongly inclined to say no! BTS did need to cut costs, the cost of fuel and the poorly funded free travel scheme has affected municipal operators the most.

 

[Whistler40145]

Mind you, if Stagecoach Service 61 had a reliable fleet it would be better!

 

[Howardh]

Just been to Blackpool (for the cricket, nothing else as I wouldn't be seen dead in the place) and am appalled at the public transport map changes. Couple of years ago we had - on line and on the bus-stops, excellent street maps with all the routes coloured in.
Now they've been replaced by a circuit map which is (a) infathomable and (b) full of errors. Sure is a sign of the deterioration of BT!

 

[WestCoast]

Just been to Blackpool (for the cricket, nothing else as I wouldn't be seen dead in the place)

The cricket ground near Stanley Park main gates? The transport provisions around there now consists of a stupid summer only bus that is of little use to anyone but tourists heading to the Zoo or Marton Mere.

and am appalled at the public transport map changes. Couple of years ago we had - on line and on the bus-stops, excellent street maps with all the routes coloured in.
Now they've been replaced by a circuit map which is (a) infathomable and (b) full of errors. Sure is a sign of the deterioration of BT!

Which maps did you look at? Some have errors which have now been sorted.

 

[umontu]

Now they've been replaced by a circuit map which is (a) infathomable and (b) full of errors. Sure is a sign of the deterioration of BT!

It is perplexing, even to locals.

Having spoken to some BT employee's they've informed me they know nothing of a strike.

 

[boing_uk]

Meanwhile, in the media...

Blackpool Gazette

DISRUPTION from regeneration schemes has hit Blackpool Transport in the pocket.

The company has seen income drop by £2.2m with the closure of the Promenade and a truncated tram service being blamed.

Figures show turnover dropped from £23m to £20.8m between 2010 and 2011. But the company has turned around trading losses of £750,000 for the year ending March 2010, to a small profit of £4,000 this year.

Its total losses last year were £1.6m but that included a reassessment of pension commitments.

Managing director Trevor Roberts said he had hoped to have resumed tram services to Cleveleys and Fleetwood by now, but work on upgrading the track meant trams were still only running between the Pleasure Beach and Little Bispham.

There was no tram service at all last winter.

Mr Roberts said: “The tramway, the Promenade, road works and traffic diversions have been a real trial for us over the last couple of years.

“With the Promenade now open and the works nearing completion, we are hoping things start to pick up.

“It is frustrating but July’s figures since the Promenade re-opened are quite encouraging.

“The work that has been going on in Blackpool has needed to be done but we are looking forward to starting to recapture revenue and get back into a profitable situation.

“We have had a good year to be able to break even in the circumstances.

“Hopefully next April, when the track upgrade is complete and the new trams have arrived, we’ll be back to where we were before.”

In the past, Blackpool Transport, whose sole shareholder is Blackpool Transport, has made annual profits of around £1m, peaking at £1.9m. Last year it reviewed services and cuts job to become more efficient.

 

[Whistler40145]

All these cutbacks have been made, but how will it get the public to travel by bus when the service at times is abysmal?

 

[cainebj]

All these cutbacks have been made, but how will it get the public to travel by bus when the service at times is abysmal?

All I will say is, look at other area's, when an hourly service is running 40-50 minutes late........
Considering the cutbacks, and the timely diversions in place while work on the promenade has been taking place, BT have done pretty damn well to keep passenger numbers up. Obviously, you'd expect buses to not run to schedule, and passenger numbers to drop, as passengers opt to travel by car rather than a delayed public service while such works have been going on, but I can honestly say that I have seen much much worse.....

On the topic of Stagecoach's 61 service, this is only operated by Volvo Olympians due to some journeys operating via Preston College, meaning those runs cannot operate with a newer, low floor single deck vehicle. It is inappropriate to allocate a double decker for those Preston College runs, with a low floor single decker during daytime, as it would increase operational costs for the depot to have the extra vehicles licensed, and costs of swapping vehicles over. It will however, be operated by newer low floor buses as and when double deck vehicles are unavailable. Even while the college is off for Summer, Preston do not have the vehicles available to have a full time low floor allocation, as the booked allocation for the service is Volvo Olympians. It is hoped that this service will be operated by Dennis Tridents, by September 2012 at the latest, although that date cannot be guaranteed. The service doesn't make enough money to warrant brand new double deckers, so used low floor double deck vehicles will have to be sourced, likely to be after the London 2012 games, of which Stagecoach London hold a large contract to operate shuttle buses, with hundreds of buses throughout the UK going on loan to Stagecoach London for the period.

 

[Whistler40145]

What I meant as an abysmal service is that you can no longer after 6pm get a Bus from South Shore via Waterloo Road & Whitegate Drive to Blackpool Town Centre.

How are residents in this area expected to travel?

If there is no service provided then you have to use other modes of transport.

 

[cainebj]

What I meant as an abysmal service is that you can no longer after 6pm get a Bus from South Shore via Waterloo Road & Whitegate Drive to Blackpool Town Centre.

How are residents in this area expected to travel?

If there is no service provided then you have to use other modes of transport.

Walk to their nearest served bus stop, like residents in areas where the last bus is before 3pm...
Example 1 Stagecoach in Cumbria service 48
Example 2 Stagecoach in Cumbria service 69.

If a bus route is not commercially viable to operate after a certain time, they will not run it. It doesn't matter if it is a big company like Stagecoach, or a small local independant company, if they cannot justify the operational costs against fares taken, they will not run it. It's a simple case of use it or lose it, especially in times like these where operational costs are rising, but raising the fares to cover the increased costs will drive away more passengers.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I last visited Blackpool earlier this year using the (now) X60/X61 that now terminates in what looks like a new National Express coach station and found that the demise of Talbot Road bus station had made looking for my onwards connection a nightmare, walking round various streets until I eventually found it. Even some residents seem confused...which is a very bad sign.

The promenade from the Tower towards the South Pier was a total shambles at that time. I understand that matters are now back on a level keel regarding service provision, but I would say that I would not be surprised if bus revenue was down during these promenade improvements.

As I said in a previous thread, Blackpool needs a co-ordinated train and bus interchange with tram connections, similar to Altrincham Interchange, to obtain the best from the travel opportunites for both residents and holidaymakers.

I am not at all surprised with regard to the feeling of fraustration that now seems to affect the bus crews as reported in this thread, as three of them spoke to me when I was there saying how bad things were and all of them had no good words (that could be printed in this posting) about the management of the company.

 

[BestWestern]

As a fairly regular visitor to Blackpool, one of the most evident issues with Blackpool Transport is it's very 'old school' image and approach, which does little to encourage business. Bus operators now must make efforts to promote their services and attract new custom, whereas BT appears still to be stuck a good few years in the past. Bearing in mind the high level of tourist trade in the town, you would expect the principal public transport operator to be capturing this business with a smart, slick advertising campaign aimed at persuading people who might not generally use buses that this is a good way of travelling around the place. Think of Southern Vectis on the Isle of Wight for example, who manage to get away with charging eye watering fares because they can successfully corner the tourist market. But with dear of Blackpool Transport, the initiative just isn't there.

As a good example, I recently viewed the company website to check prices of it's day tickets, but could find no such information. Hardly encouraging my business. The site in general lacks the professional touch one would hope to find from a company, and really doesn't give the right impression at all. The buses themselves are a ragbag of varying different bits and bobs, and the new livery is so poor that even the brand new low floor single deckers look awful :-/

I like the fact that BT still exists in it's mildly quaint, 'old fashioned' semi-municipal form, but there are some serious image issues which the management need to learn if they are to succeed! If it did come to the point of selling up, I personally would really like to see Go Ahead get in there, using their successful method, proven in the south of England, of pushing strong local indentities combined with clever marketing and a well presented fleet. I think they'd do a good job of it.

 

[WestCoast]

As a fairly regular visitor to Blackpool, one of the most evident issues with Blackpool Transport is it's very 'old school' image and approach, which does little to encourage business. Bus operators now must make efforts to promote their services and attract new custom, whereas BT appears still to be stuck a good few years in the past. Bearing in mind the high level of tourist trade in the town, you would expect the principal public transport operator to be capturing this business with a smart, slick advertising campaign aimed at persuading people who might not generally use buses that this is a good way of travelling around the place. Think of Southern Vectis on the Isle of Wight for example, who manage to get away with charging eye watering fares because they can successfully corner the tourist market. But with dear of Blackpool Transport, the initiative just isn't there.

As a good example, I recently viewed the company website to check prices of it's day tickets, but could find no such information. Hardly encouraging my business. The site in general lacks the professional touch one would hope to find from a company, and really doesn't give the right impression at all. The buses themselves are a ragbag of varying different bits and bobs, and the new livery is so poor that even the brand new low floor single deckers look awful :-/

I like the fact that BT still exists in it's mildly quaint, 'old fashioned' semi-municipal form, but there are some serious image issues which the management need to learn if they are to succeed! If it did come to the point of selling up, I personally would really like to see Go Ahead get in there, using their successful method, proven in the south of England, of pushing strong local indentities combined with clever marketing and a well presented fleet. I think they'd do a good job of it.

Blackpool Transport has lost all innovation of late, their approach is a little basic to the say the least - it feels like they have gone way back in time. They took a massive risk with "Metro Coastlines" in 2001, which in my opinion was probably the most successful route branding strategy in the country. It was extremely rare to see the wrong colour bus serving the route. Passengers seemed to like it and it won praise from industry experts. It was clever, rather unique and dare I say it, innovative. Sadly, it did limit operational flexibility, but then they did have the "pool" fleet.

They had several branding tools like "I'm on the bus", and they got very close to a polished image worthy of Go-Ahead. Look at this photo of the Line 11 branding, looked rather good didn't it? That image was binned in favour of the current mess - black and yellow was only chosen because it was the cheapest option with repainting. No thought was given to the future image of the company.

Promotion and Branding is their biggest weakness on the image front, they aren't bad at ticketing and the such. They offer a discounted bus day ticket (£3.30 adult/£2.00 child) through PayPoint agents (listed on the website), a very good idea to push off-bus sales, and it is well used by locals BUT why is this not heavily promoted on the website?!??

To be honest, and this will go against traditionalists, I'd have changed the bus network to "Fylde Coastlines" (more representative of the area served and it sounds rather good?) with funky Best Impressions branding along the lines of Trent Barton. Going back to the old name with that drab image was a poor move, and took the company back to the 90s with the "HandyBus" image, which I loathed.

 

[BestWestern]

I agree, the route branding was a big jump forward for the company and certainly brought them closer to the cutting edge. At a time when it is very clear that clever, targeted promotion for individual routes and corridors is the way to win business, the current policy makes little sense. If the livery was remotely attractive it might be a tad less retrograde, but either way it's a huge step backwards You can't help but wonder if the preoccupation with the swanky new trams has completely overshadowed the 'humdrum' everyday bus operation?!

With reference to the HandyBus brand, although it was maybe a little brash it was another brave and very forward thinking move, considering that it first appeared a good few years ago! Clearly there have been some very constructive elements within the management over the years, but presumably there are scant few at the moment.

 

[Whistler40145]

The main problem BT have is that some of their fleet are ready for the knackers yard and in my opinion that some buses are merely hanging on!

I think some Optare Solos sound like they have had new engines.

Most new buses have been put on routes with a high frequency.

Routes with a minimum number of passengers after 6pm should have a limited service using Minibuses.

 

[WestCoast]

The route branding was very innovative at the time.

Blackpool Transport/Metro Coastlines was the case-study for route branding, and it was admired within the industry. I have no doubt many other companies studied it and introduced it in some form. It was always quoted as how a bus company should do route branding with First's poor effort in places like York being the opposite example.

Much of time you could identify your bus using the colour - tourists knew the "orange bus" was the promenade service e.t.c. It worked very well, if a black and yellow bus turned up, you knew to check the number and destination.

The main problem BT have is that some of their fleet are ready for the knackers yard and in my opinion that some buses are merely hanging on!

I don't actually think that is the main problem, they are clearly working on that. All MetroRiders have gone, its just solos now. If the Isle of Man Tridents come as rumoured more Leyland Olympians can disappear.

The main problem is lack of cash and a poor branding strategy after many years of having a decent one!

You can't help but wonder if the preoccupation with the swanky new trams has completely overshadowed the 'humdrum' everyday bus operation?!

The fact that the trams are supposedly going in "Council colours" says something to me about their opinion of their arms length company.

 

[BestWestern]

On the subject of vehicle replacement, I was a little suprised to see the wholesale withdrawal of the Delta fleet, which I always thought were far more acceptable in service than some of the tatty old 'deckers. If there is a lack of cash it can only have been made worse by the purchase of a batch of pricey new Volvo's and a futher compliment of second hand ones. Surely a misguided purchase at a time when it appears the general policy is 'any bus on any route' - who will appreciate them?! :roll:

 

[Whistler40145]

I have noticed that BT are using Deltas for Driver Training.

 

[WestCoast]

Sorry for the bump, but I have news. Full bus/tram day and weekly ticket integration from the 5th September....

Good and bad news really, some bus singles will increase and some will actually decrease.

All Saver tickets will now be integrated and will cover the full network across the Fylde. The Day Saver (previously bus-only) now valid on BUSES AND TRAMS at all times. It's slightly increased to £3.50 from PayPoint agents and £4.00 onboard. Exactly what I suggested before.

So, basically, the singles are getting rather dear but the period tickets are becoming better value.

FULL DETAILS: http://www.blackpooltransport.com/Fares2011.aspx

 

[progress]

Absolutely, instead of the £22ish for a weekly travel pass it will now be £13.50, great value for anyone on holiday.

 

[TrainfanBen]

I noticed that child tickets aren't issued after 9PM, which also appears to be a new practice with National Express Coventry, except the rule is 10PM.

Why are bus ops doing this? Is it a new practice (overall)?


BTW, I did like Metro-coastlines, I think it's better for tourists. (as previously mentioned)

I believe it was also mentioned further back that Stagecoach wouldn't do a good job, so if they wouldn't who will?

 

[WestCoast]

I noticed that child tickets aren't issued after 9PM, which also appears to be a new practice with National Express Coventry, except the rule is 10PM.

Why are bus ops doing this? Is it a new practice (overall)?

Well, less children are likely to be travelling at that time. Less arguments with passengers claiming they are under 16, which can turn nasty and of course, the final and most important reason, more revenue for late night services.

I believe it was also mentioned further back that Stagecoach wouldn't do a good job, so if they wouldn't who will?

That is a difficult question. I am a firm believer in local companies and I think BT will continue to survive in its current form.

 

[ChrisCooper]

Very nice. So last year I paid £15.50 for a 3 day pass and then had to buy a single (think it was £1.50) to get from the hotel to the centre on the way back. This year it will cost £13.50 for a 7 day pass. Not normal for transport to get cheaper.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well, less children are likely to be travelling at that time. Less arguments with passengers claiming they are under 16, which can turn nasty

The point that you make about young people claiming that they are younger than they are to obtain child fares and having no pass to prove their entitlement is unfortunately common in many places these days at any time of the day.