Bought a more expensive ticket from TVM

[Killingworth]

Two friends travelled from Dronfield to Headingley yesterday on the 9.02, returning on the 18.34. One got to the station in good time to buy his ticket from the TVM and his card was charged £11.95.

The other didn't want to pay by card and chose to pay cash on the train. He was charged £9.10.

Something wrong here? Possibly, but what's the difference?

Go to Northern's website and I find both fares quoted. Which is/was right? Surely both can't be, but it seems they may be? Guess what, they'll both buy from the conductor next time!

Evidence; https://www.buytickets.northernrailway.co.uk/buytickets/combinedmatrix.aspx?Command=TimeTable

Yes, one is valid via Doncaster - but why would anyone want to go via Doncaster to take longer, on 4 trains instead of 2, and pay more?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Two friends travelled from Dronfield to Headingley yesterday on the 9.02, returning on the 18.34. One got to the station in good time to buy his ticket from the TVM and his card was charged £11.95.

The other didn't want to pay by card and chose to pay cash on the train. He was charged £9.10.

Something wrong here? Possibly, but what's the difference?

Go to Northern's website and I find both fares quoted. Which is/was right? Surely both can't be, but it seems they may be? Guess what, they'll both buy from the conductor next time!

Evidence; https://www.buytickets.northernrailway.co.uk/buytickets/combinedmatrix.aspx?Command=TimeTableView attachment 51804

Yes, one is valid via Doncaster - but why would anyone want to go via Doncaster to take longer, on 4 trains instead of 2, and pay more?

It's product knowledge without seeing the TVM in question to see if both options are there. There's a lot of these two routes tickets all across the system. No staff on the Cambrian will sell the Any Permitted off peak return to London as it involves tight changes at Wolverhampton and Stafford whereas the via Birmingham fare has better connections and is cheaper. Let Joe Public loose on the Internet and sales of the Any Permitted shoot up.

Our fare system may be just too complex for simple easy to understand and use TVM's. Most foreign ones I've used are all on closed metro systems.

 

[Starmill]

The fare is higher for travel via Doncaster. This applies regardless of the perceived (in)convenience of doing so, or if you actually do so.

The person who paid £11.95 has been overcharged if they were not informed of the cheaper option. I would suggest that they write politely to Northern requesting a refund of the difference. In the event they're refused they ought write again asking the Manager to review the case and explaining that the ticket machine overcharged them. If they refuse a second time I would strongly suggest that the matter is referred to Transport Focus.

 

[Starmill]

Our fare system may be just too complex for simple easy to understand and use TVM's.

I wonder if there is something in this. My mother came home telling me she'd had quite an upsetting experience on the train this week. She arrived at her local Northern station to buy a ticket but found the ticket office closed when it should have been open. She tried to use the ticket machine but her destination is not listed on it. She tried the help button on the machine but that did nothing, so she boarded the train without a ticket, assuming that common sense would apply. Unfortunately the Northern staff at her interchange station accused her of trying to travel without a ticket. After she disputed that strongly and got quite upset, they sold her an Anytime Day Return - overcharging her because the Off Peak Day Return was the correct fare for her journey. Now I am left to write her letters of complaint to try to secure her a refund and an apology. Doubtless I will have to exhaust two opportunities at Northern and then one at Transport Focus before referring it to my MP just to get a refund.

 

[Killingworth]

The fare is higher for travel via Doncaster. This applies regardless of the perceived (in)convenience of doing so, of if you actually do so.

The person who paid £11.95 has been overcharged if they were not informed of the cheaper option. I would suggest that they write politely to Northern requesting a refund of the difference. In the event they're refused they ought write again asking the Manager to review the case and explaining that the ticket machine overcharged them. If they refuse a second time I would strongly suggest that the matter is referred to Transport Focus.

I suspect the TVM may have offered both options, but he'd have taken the first day return option he saw. As has been said previously, the systems are too complex for those who don't use trains very frequently. Whether anything is done to improve matters remains to be seen. Anyway, he's going back to check tomorrow and may then make a complaint.

 

[Starmill]

I suspect the TVM may have offered both options, but he'd have taken the first day return option he saw. As has been said previously, the systems are too complex for those who don't use trains very frequently. Whether anything is done to improve matters remains to be seen. Anyway, he's going back to check tomorrow and may then make a complaint.

Under Northern's Ticket Vending Manchine Price Promise it is "unlikely" that you will purchase a more expensive ticket than nccesary for your journey:

In the unlikely event that you purchase a ticket from a Ticket Vending Machine (TVM) at a Northern station and then discover you could have bought a cheaper product for the identical journey, you may be entitled to a refund to the value of the difference in cost.

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/faq/tickets/1169-ticket-vending-machine-price-promise

So the cheaper ticket merely being available isn't sufficient. It must be made clear when a customer is not buying the cheapest available ticket that there is an alternative.

In the "unlikely" event that this occurs, they 'promise' to provide a refund.

 

[sheff1]

Two friends travelled from Dronfield to Headingley yesterday .... >snip

Both tickets are valid for the journey made, but the first person paid for the option of being able to travel via Doncaster which they actually did not want. Fares from the Sheffield area to the Leeds area (nearly ?) always have a 'Not via Doncaster' variant which is usually, but not always, cheaper than the 'Any Permitted'.

Fortunately, as starmill highlighted, Northern say they provide refunds in the circumstances described (although it seems to fall short of a "guarantee" despite being called a "promise"). Please let us know how the application for this refund goes as I have never heard of anyone applying for one before.

 

[robbeech]

I’m disappointed with the way these machines seem to use the concept of popular destinations.
There’s seems to be a discrepancy between popular destinations and popular tickets.

You have a list of popular destinations but it is actually destinations with a set ticket type.

Why can’t we have a list of popular places that we press, and then a list of ticket types appear? The same as when we go from the ‘a to z’ page ?