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Boundary zone 6 to Dartford tickets

Skimpot flyer

Established Member
Joined
16 Nov 2012
Messages
1,816
As above, how can I purchase a return from the Zone 6 boundary to Dartford? Are these only available from TVMs? I tried entering ‘Boundary Zone 6’ on Southern’s website but it doesn’t recognise it.
I looked at the price of a return from Brighton to Dartford and it’s actually quite a bit cheaper to buy a Travelcard and pay for a return to/from Slade Green to Dartford for the last part of the journey. A boundary zone 6 ticket would allow us to use of any of the three routes from London Bridge, or have a meander around Farringdon, and take the Purple train to Abbey Wood.
Thanks in advance
 
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OscarH

Member
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15 Sep 2020
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853
Location
Crawley
The forums site should sell it if you search from London Bridge to Dartford, and set in the advance options that you hold a 1-6 travelcard
 

jfollows

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2011
Messages
7,852
Location
Wilmslow
The forums site should sell it if you search from London Bridge to Dartford, and set in the advance options that you hold a 1-6 travelcard
Yes, but it’s a faff, and sometimes comes up with other confusing options. I just got “boundary zone 2” when I tried it, admittedly not too hard.
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
19,728
As above, how can I purchase a return from the Zone 6 boundary to Dartford? Are these only available from TVMs? I tried entering ‘Boundary Zone 6’ on Southern’s website but it doesn’t recognise it.
I looked at the price of a return from Brighton to Dartford and it’s actually quite a bit cheaper to buy a Travelcard and pay for a return to/from Slade Green to Dartford for the last part of the journey. A boundary zone 6 ticket would allow us to use of any of the three routes from London Bridge, or have a meander around Farringdon, and take the Purple train to Abbey Wood.
Thanks in advance
Most websites are unable to sell ‘Boundary Zone’ tickets because it is impossible to generate a travel itinerary from a location that isn’t actually a station. TVMs that don’t use journey planning software can sell the through the ‘tickets from another station’ functionality.
 

paul1609

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2006
Messages
7,992
Location
K
If you havent got a ticket to start with buy a Swanley to London Zones 1 to 6 Rte "aaa Ldn Zones 7 to 9" ticket. Off Peak £17.00
Dartford is in Zone 8.
 

SRJ

New Member
Joined
15 Feb 2025
Messages
3
Location
london
Buying boundary zone tickets varies from website to website. Thameslink won't (or at least I can't find out how to) sell me a Harpenden to Boundary Zone 6 ticket but others such as C2C will happily do so.
 

redreni

Established Member
Joined
24 Sep 2010
Messages
1,497
Location
Slade Green
Buying boundary zone tickets varies from website to website. Thameslink won't (or at least I can't find out how to) sell me a Harpenden to Boundary Zone 6 ticket but others such as C2C will happily do so.
Can't speak for the TVMs at Harpenden, but I've bought boundary zone tickets from the Thameslink TVMs at City Thameslink and Farringdon before.

It is easy to miss - if you select "tickets from other stations" and try to put in Bounday Zone 6 as the origin, it won't accept that.

It's an entirely separate option from the home screen. I think it's called something like "extend existing Travelcard", though I could be wrong.

If the ticket office is open, they should be able to sell it.
 

Carefree

Member
Joined
1 Nov 2010
Messages
54
IMO, TOCs that refuse to make boundary Zone 6 tickets available should be challenged. I'd be inclined to buy no ticket at all, and let them try to prosecute (they can't in such circumstances).
 

boiledbeans2

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Joined
15 Oct 2020
Messages
710
Location
UK
IMO, TOCs that refuse to make boundary Zone 6 tickets available should be challenged. I'd be inclined to buy no ticket at all, and let them try to prosecute (they can't in such circumstances).
I don't know if you've heard of this website - that seems to be what exactly they are doing!

The Competition Appeal Tribunal has given the green light to rail passengers to seek compensation from the Southeastern and South Western rail franchises if it is found, at trial, that they did not make ‘boundary fares’ sufficiently available to consumers. In a judgment delivered on 19 October 2021, the Tribunal has ordered that the claims, issued on behalf of millions of rail passengers, can now proceed to trial. The standalone claim was the first of its kind to be filed in the UK.
 

island

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2010
Messages
17,342
Location
0036
IMO, TOCs that refuse to make boundary Zone 6 tickets available should be challenged.
Are there any TOCs that actually refuse to make boundary zone tickets available?
I'd be inclined to buy no ticket at all, and let them try to prosecute (they can't in such circumstances).
A prosecution under section 103 of the Railway Clauses Consolidation Act 1845 (for tickets away from London) or section 18 of the Railway Byelaws (for tickets towards London) would be possible and very likely successful.
 

redreni

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Joined
24 Sep 2010
Messages
1,497
Location
Slade Green
Are there any TOCs that actually refuse to make boundary zone tickets available?

A prosecution under section 103 of the Railway Clauses Consolidation Act 1845 (for tickets away from London) or section 18 of the Railway Byelaws (for tickets towards London) would be possible and very likely successful.
The Southeastern stations near me do make it impossible when the ticket office is closed, yes. You can buy Boundary Zone tickets from a limited number of non-obvious online retailers (e.g. the forum's site or Avanti), but Southeastern doesn't sell them from its TVMs or online. Southeastern TVMs also don't let you vary the origin, because they have ungated stations and they do relatively little revenue protection, so they're understandably worried about short-faring. This means you also can't buy a point-to-point ticket in substitution for a boundary zone ticket at the departure station.

I know the railway likes to put about a strict interpretation of the requirement in the NRCoT to purchase 'a ticket' covering the whole of their journey before boarding if the opportunity exists to do so, taking this to mean any old ticket, not necessarily an appropriate ticket. Frankly, I think this attitude only strengthens the argument that TOCs can't be trusted with powers to prosecute people. They intentionally limit the range of tickets on sale at stations. And I know from experience that if you overpay and then ask them to reimburse you, they refuse. They still do all this even after the CAT finding on boundary fares.

Southeastern also have far fewer staff than they need to staff their ticket offices for the regulated minimum opening hours, and at single-person staffed stations they provide no cover for staff breaks, meaning you can't rely on ticket offices being open even when starting a journey at a time when the ticket office is advertised as being open.

Additionally, when they are there and they are open, they often refuse to sell you the ticket you ask for. I've had a ticket office in South East London refuse to sell an off-peak day return from Boundary Zone 6 to Maidenhead at 9.15am, when I was holding a Travelcard season ticket, on the grounds it was before 9.30am, even though I would have needed a warp drive to get to Paddington, let alone the western zone boundary, before 9.30am (not that 9.30 is even the relevant restriction on that ticket).

And only yesterday, they refused to sell me a boundary zone 6 to Maidenhead ticket because I tried to use a National Rail Travel Voucher as part payment, on the spurious ground that it was issued by SWR.

So yes, sorry for the long answer, but it is absolutely no exaggeration at all to say Southeastern refuses to make boundary zone tickets readily available. Short of having an actual policy of refusing to sell them, it is hard to imagine what more they could possibly do to make it difficult to obtain these tickets?
 

Ennis

Member
Joined
28 May 2022
Messages
7
Location
Hayes
The Southeastern stations near me do make it impossible when the ticket office is closed, yes. You can buy Boundary Zone tickets from a limited number of non-obvious online retailers (e.g. the forum's site or Avanti), but Southeastern doesn't sell them from its TVMs or online. Southeastern TVMs also don't let you vary the origin, because they have ungated stations and they do relatively little revenue protection, so they're understandably worried about short-faring. This means you also can't buy a point-to-point ticket in substitution for a boundary zone ticket at the departure station.

I know the railway likes to put about a strict interpretation of the requirement in the NRCoT to purchase 'a ticket' covering the whole of their journey before boarding if the opportunity exists to do so, taking this to mean any old ticket, not necessarily an appropriate ticket. Frankly, I think this attitude only strengthens the argument that TOCs can't be trusted with powers to prosecute people. They intentionally limit the range of tickets on sale at stations. And I know from experience that if you overpay and then ask them to reimburse you, they refuse. They still do all this even after the CAT finding on boundary fares.

Southeastern also have far fewer staff than they need to staff their ticket offices for the regulated minimum opening hours, and at single-person staffed stations they provide no cover for staff breaks, meaning you can't rely on ticket offices being open even when starting a journey at a time when the ticket office is advertised as being open.

Additionally, when they are there and they are open, they often refuse to sell you the ticket you ask for. I've had a ticket office in South East London refuse to sell an off-peak day return from Boundary Zone 6 to Maidenhead at 9.15am, when I was holding a Travelcard season ticket, on the grounds it was before 9.30am, even though I would have needed a warp drive to get to Paddington, let alone the western zone boundary, before 9.30am (not that 9.30 is even the relevant restriction on that ticket).

And only yesterday, they refused to sell me a boundary zone 6 to Maidenhead ticket because I tried to use a National Rail Travel Voucher as part payment, on the spurious ground that it was issued by SWR.

So yes, sorry for the long answer, but it is absolutely no exaggeration at all to say Southeastern refuses to make boundary zone tickets readily available. Short of having an actual policy of refusing to sell them, it is hard to imagine what more they could possibly do to make it difficult to obtain these tickets?
Unless its recently changed you can purchase tickets from other locations, including from boundary zones from Southeastern TVMs. We did this from several of their stations last November.
 

redreni

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Joined
24 Sep 2010
Messages
1,497
Location
Slade Green
Unless its recently changed you can purchase tickets from other locations, including from boundary zones from Southeastern TVMs. We did this from several of their stations last November.
Ah, yes, you're absolutely right! Took me awhile to remember to check, but the "tickets from other stations" and "tickets for future travel" features have been enabled at the Southeastern TVMs at at least a couple of stations near me. I'm not sure when that changed in my area, but it's working now which is a big improvement. Presumably it's the case everywhere on the Southeastern network now.

I had correspondence with Southeastern about this during the ticket office closure consultation, and they just said the "tickets from other stations" feature wasn't available at their TVMs for revenue protection reasons. I did venture and opinion that their policy could be counterproductive in that regard if it meant people couldn't buy a ticket to extend the validity of a ticket or pass they already held, and their policy would become more and more untenable the fewer ticket offices there were. It felt a bit like banging my head against a wall, but who knows, maybe some of it went in on some level? Or maybe something was agreed at RDG level and senior managers simply told them to do this?
 

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