BR Tail lamp restoration - advice sought

[TinplateRunner]

Hello - I have a BR white tail lamp (the sort with a paraffin burner which I would guess dates from the 1950s / 1960s) that is has seen better days and I would like to restore.

Has anyone got any advice on the best way to do it? Can the red glass lense be removed? Has anyone had one of these shot-blasted and stove enameled? Is that possible? Any thoughts or advice please.

Also does anyone have a close-up photo or drawing of the bracket that would have held the tail lamp? I would like to make / get one made so I can display the lamp on a wall. Again any advice would be most welcome.

 

[30907]

Also does anyone have a close-up photo or drawing of the bracket that would have held the tail lamp? I would like to make / get one made so I can display the lamp on a wall. Again any advice would be most welcome.

Sorry, can't help, but a visit to your nearest heritage line should allow you to take a close-up - and they might advise on restoration too.

 

[TinplateRunner]

Sorry, can't help, but a visit to your nearest heritage line should allow you to take a close-up - and they might advise on restoration too.

Good call. thanks

 

[John Webb]

In our experience at St Albans South we tend not to go in for a 'heavy-duty' restoration of the type you are contemplating.
Firstly it is usually impossible to remove the red lens - so shot-blasting is likely to damage it unless you are extremely careful to mask it off adequately.

Best way is to clean thoroughly outside and inside with warm soapy water. Use Wet and Dry paper wetted to remove areas of loose paint and rust. Dry off and use a good primer where the paint has been removed. Then a couple of coats of white paint.
We have used Hammerite paint direct onto bare metal as per the maker's instructions, but a good primer seems to me to give a better finish overall.

I'm not clear from your post if you have the original paraffin burner for it or not. If you do, these can be susceptible to rust causing pinhole leaks, and if you intend using it with the burner alight then it is critical that the tank is tested out in the open by filling it with paraffin.
But I would not have the lamp lit indoors, or indeed even containing paraffin in the burner tank, due to the potential fire risk.

The flame should be roughly a thumb-nail in height, around 20mm/0.75inch. Too large and the lamp can get too warm for comfort.

 

[TinplateRunner]

Hello John and thanks for your message / post - its much appreciated.

I mentioned shot-blasting because while the rust is starting to show on the outside, the inside is very rusty and I can imagine it will be difficult to remove. A friend suggested sand-blasting as a way of getting rid of the maximum amount of rust possible.

Yes the original paraffin burner is inside, but it does leak. I have no plans to repair it or use it. I just like the lamp because it's a small piece of railway history.

The last thing I want to do is damage the lense or the lamp, but I also don't want it to rust until it starts to fall apart. I didn't know it was possible to get white Hammerite paint, but I shall investigate further.

Thank you again for your thoughts and advice. dave.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello John and thanks for your message / post - its much appreciated.

I mentioned shot-blasting because while the rust is starting to show on the outside, the inside is very rusty and I can imagine it will be difficult to remove. A friend suggested sand-blasting as a way of getting rid of the maximum amount of rust possible.

Yes the original paraffin burner is inside, but it does leak. I have no plans to repair it or use it. I just like the lamp because it's a small piece of railway history.

The last thing I want to do is damage the lense or the lamp, but I also don't want it to rust until it starts to fall apart. I didn't know it was possible to get white Hammerite paint, but I shall investigate further.

Thank you again for your thoughts and advice. dave.

What used to be called smoothright paint. Same range not hammered finish.

For rust internally and thus difficult to rub back to bare metal for access reasons if opening large enough to get fingers in a bit then maybe wire wool might help.

Also before painting could apply one of the chemical rust neutralisers you can get. Jenolite might be one. Sort of turns the rust black and ceases the reaction that is corrosion. Then you can paint on top with metal paints like hammerite range. If you’ve not used it before find something else that’s rusty first to experiment on.

Stuff like that I tend to get from a motor factors as part of products for car bodywork repair.

Rust Remover vs Rust Converter: Which To Use? | [UPDATE 2024] A comprehensive guide

Rust Converters chemically transform rust into a protective layer, stopping corrosion and preparing the surface for further treatment. Rust Removers, in contrast, directly dissolve rust, returning metal to its pristine state.

www.jenolite.com

 

[John Webb]

Hello John and thanks for your message / post - its much appreciated.......
.....The last thing I want to do is damage the lense or the lamp, but I also don't want it to rust until it starts to fall apart. I didn't know it was possible to get white Hammerite paint, but I shall investigate further.....

I'll check when I'm next up at the box exactly which white paint we used.

Once the lamp is indoors 'in the dry' the rusting rate will slow down considerably, so it is not critical to get rust off the inside.

 

[WesternLancer]

I've only ever had something that was quite heavy cast iron sand or shotblasted - and that worked superbly - however I assume these lamps are made of relatively thin gauge sheet steel (or even tinplate?) so if blasting were possible even it would need to be pretty gentle to prevent damage to the metal - and I don't know how gentle those processes can be. I suppose if the process was suitably gentle it might be possible to mask up the red glass to prevent damage in the process.

Would the paint need to be heat proof? (originally if not now if it's not going to be used lit) to protect it form the heat from the burning wick - or is that not an issue - i.e. they are designed so the metal cases stay cool when lit.

 

[TinplateRunner]

I've only ever had something that was quite heavy cast iron sand or shotblasted - and that worked superbly - however I assume these lamps are made of relatively thin gauge sheet steel (or even tinplate?) so if blasting were possible even it would need to be pretty gentle to prevent damage to the metal - and I don't know how gentle those processes can be. I suppose if the process was suitably gentle it might be possible to mask up the red glass to prevent damage in the process.

Would the paint need to be heat proof? (originally if not now if it's not going to be used lit) to protect it form the heat from the burning wick - or is that not an issue - i.e. they are designed so the metal cases stay cool when lit.

An interesting point. I think I am heading away from the shotblasting idea. I think the wire wool / rust inhibitor route is the way forward and then some repainting.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Mar 2025 ==

I'll check when I'm next up at the box exactly which white paint we used.

Once the lamp is indoors 'in the dry' the rusting rate will slow down considerably, so it is not critical to get rust off the inside.

John - all good advice - many thanks. Yes, if you can check on the paint you used, that would be brilliant. cheers - dave

 

[John Webb]

I've only ever had something that was quite heavy cast iron sand or shotblasted - and that worked superbly - however I assume these lamps are made of relatively thin gauge sheet steel (or even tinplate?) so if blasting were possible even it would need to be pretty gentle to prevent damage to the metal - and I don't know how gentle those processes can be. I suppose if the process was suitably gentle it might be possible to mask up the red glass to prevent damage in the process.

They are tinplate - we've had to repair a couple that got overheated - one due to a paraffin leak causing a severe flare-up, the other due to too large a flame heating the lamp up too much. In that respect:

Would the paint need to be heat proof? (originally if not now if it's not going to be used lit) to protect it form the heat from the burning wick - or is that not an issue - i.e. they are designed so the metal cases stay cool when lit.

The lamps are normally warm to the touch, particularly the cover over the upper vent where most heat escapes. We've never used a heat-resistant paint. But the main problem is that white-painted lamps tend to collect fingerprints from when you fill and light the lamp and need cleaning and repainting more often.

The inside of all lamps - tail, head and signal - is left black; this is to minimise any risk of light being reflected in the wrong direction and giving someone a wrong indication.

 

[Lemmy99uk]

Hello - I have a BR white tail lamp (the sort with a paraffin burner which I would guess dates from the 1950s / 1960s) that is has seen better days and I would like to restore.

These lamps were still being made well in to the 1980s.

I have one in almost identical condition that was one of the last batch produced. There were 50 or so in a BRUTE on Stafford station, wrapped in brown paper if I recall correctly and I helped myself to one whist waiting to work a train to New Street.

I think they had been manufactured at Crewe, although I don’t know if it was BR doing the fabrication.

 

[Pigeon]

I will add my voice to those who fear that shotblasting it would turn into yet another of those shotblasting tales of woe so common among inexperienced car restorers. It sounds like the best plan would be to scrub all the loose rust off the inside with a wire brush, use a phosphatising stabiliser on what remains (eg. Jenolite; turns the rust into a blue-black phosphate which helps prevent further rust) and then paint it with something like smooth Hammerite (brushed version probably better than spray-can).

We've never used a heat-resistant paint.

I'm pretty sure I used ordinary household gloss (with primer) on mine; seemed to work fine. Not having a burner for it I put a 60W bulb inside on a wooden stand and it lit up beautifully without getting particularly heated. I guess the modern equivalent would be a 7W or so warm white LED "corn cob" lamp.

The inside of all lamps - tail, head and signal - is left black; this is to minimise any risk of light being reflected in the wrong direction and giving someone a wrong indication.

Interesting. I don't remember finding anything inside mine that gave any hint of anything other than white being the appropriate colour for the inside too. Not that I think I had to paint the inside; it was a long time ago so I'm a bit hazy now but I think the inside just needed cleaning up. If I had had to paint the inside it would have been fiddly so I think I would have remembered it.