Bristol - London journey times

[trymbeck]

Hi,

In the light of the discussions on electrification of the FGW route into London, I wonder if anyone can satisfy my curiosity on travel times from Bristol to London........

- when I first moved to Bristol in 1997, I could a non-stop train at 8 a.m. to London (from Bristol Parkway) that took 65 minutes. Each year there was an annnual increase in journey time sometimes, but not always accompanied by the introduction of an additional stop (Reading, then later Swindon). I heard a rumour that the time increase was being done because the ageing HSTs were not considered "safe" to run at 60 minutes or so at their fastest pace. Anyone care to comment on that?

- secondly, are there any estimates for what a revised journey time for this journey might be in an electrified world?

Hoping my curiosity can be satisfied......

Bill

 

[Guinness]

I heard a rumour that the time increase was being done because the ageing HSTs were not considered "safe" to run at 60 minutes or so at their fastest pace. Anyone care to comment on that?

That's complete tosh.

It's purely so First Great Western can cover their backs with slack timings, so when a train is running late the slacker timetable will absorb some of those lost minutes back when the train arrives at its terminus. It pushes FGW Performance Figures up so it makes the company look better when it comes around to Franchise Renewal time. It's not uncommon, Central Trains did this and Virgin used to do this a lot when it the new Rolling Stock was introduced, even then only 65% of trains were on time. For example, a train would be 8 minutes late arriving into Stockport but 5 minutes early into Manchester Piccadilly. The train arrived on time/early so it's looks good on Performance Figures. However this is less common these days given the new high frequency timetable and much better reliability from Pendolino Trains.

 

[Mintona]

Dunno. Some trains are given 16mins Stockport - Manchester I believe.

65 minutes Bristol Parkway - London was surely really pushing it though?! It is about 85 now (I think)!

 

[Oracle]

I used to get a lift from my Mum from Hounslow to Feltham, catch a train to Reading at about 7.30, then wait 20 minutes for an HST to Parkway, arriving at about 9.20, then grabbed a taxi or bus to the then Polytechnic. All for £6.30 weekend return with a Student R/C.

 

[Techniquest]

Bristol Parkway to Paddington is a long journey these days. I would love to be able to do it in 65 minutes, it would drastically cut the travelling time down.

These days, you're looking at an average of 90 minutes. I believe the 0829 Swansea to Paddington is booked to do BPW to PAD in 87 minutes. Going the other way, it's usually booked for 84 minutes (on the ones that don't call at Didcot Parkway at least). But with delays encountered, an average of 90 minutes is realistic and indeed is what I tell anyone who asks how long it takes to allocate.

Problem is these days you've got the stops at Swindon, Didcot Parkway and Reading to factor in. These centres of population have grown massively in the last couple of decades calling for services to call there irrespective of the time of day, distance or whatever. The only service I know of that's booked not to call (but invariably has to due to the cancellation of the 0630 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington) is the 0640 from Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington, which is booked non-stop Swindon to London Paddington.

The one that I find drops journey times between Reading and London is the seemingly required severe drop of speed through Slough. Indeed, my last fast trip through there was in March 2007! Always, ALWAYS, used to storm the living daylights out of Slough on the express services, alas this seems to be a thing of the past.

Chaz is bang-on with the point about slack time, every TOC that operate inter-regional express services or Inter-City services allows for slack time at the end of each journey for the reason of PPM.

 

[paul1609]

Additionally FGW HSTs were originally 2+7 and the engines were rated at 2500 bhp so the power to weight ratio of todays HSTs is much lower.
I've heard rumours that many of the NXEC 2+9 sets only have a balancing speed of about 117 mph on the flat so only achieve 125 downhill these days.

 

[Techniquest]

They had originally considered boosting the rating of the Valentas in the East Coast machines when they went 2+9, however they went sufficiently well without the upgrade.

I didn't realise that the Western Region ones had been downrated, always thought they were 2,250hp from the outset. But yes, good point on the sets originally being 2+7 formations.

 

[The Planner]

I've heard rumours that many of the NXEC 2+9 sets only have a balancing speed of about 117 mph on the flat so only achieve 125 downhill these days.

If thats the case they should be losing time over the length of the journey, and Ive not heard anything to that effect.

 

[yorkie]

The only service I know of that's booked not to call (but invariably has to due to the cancellation of the 0630 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington) is the 0640 from Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington, which is booked non-stop Swindon to London Paddington.

You're been proven right already - 0630 cancelled today so 0940 had to call and was late as a result!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Additionally FGW HSTs were originally 2+7 and the engines were rated at 2500 bhp so the power to weight ratio of todays HSTs is much lower.
I've heard rumours that many of the NXEC 2+9 sets only have a balancing speed of about 117 mph on the flat so only achieve 125 downhill these days.

Pretty sure that's not correct, but I'll check it with a GPS.
On GC (2+6) 0847 York to King's Cross we reached 98mph at Earfit Lane crossing and reached 125 just before Hambleton Jn, which was reached at 0946 and is 13.6 miles from York. I'll try NXEC out next time I get the chance to travel with them, but it'll probably be a 91 next week.

 

[16CSVT2700]

The one that I find drops journey times between Reading and London is the seemingly required severe drop of speed through Slough. Indeed, my last fast trip through there was in March 2007! Always, ALWAYS, used to storm the living daylights out of Slough on the express services, alas this seems to be a thing of the past.

Are you sure? I haven't noticed a decline in speed through Slough at all..

 

[devon_metro]

My last journey through Slough was at 125mph.

A Paddington - Swansea service did Padd - Rdg today is 23 minutes, fairly impressive i'll say.

 

[adc82140]

2 HSTs an hour stop at Slough in each direction these days- you may be unlucky enough to be behind one of these, hence the slow running.

It is still possible to absolutely hammer down the GWML. The 17:06 Pad-Westbury got me to Twyford in 18 minutes the other night.

It seems that some drivers can really milk the HSTs for all they're worth, getting the best accelleration and braking curves. As I am a complete industry outsider, can any drivers on here comment on whether it is possible to have an individual driving "style" or if the inherent design of locos (and the rulebook!!) prevent this, and it's purely my imagination that trains go faster when they're late

 

[WillPS]

To be honest, I'd rather timetables be realistic than otimistic. If that means longer journey times then so be it.

 

[Techniquest]

My last journey through Slough was at 125mph.

A Paddington - Swansea service did Padd - Rdg today is 23 minutes, fairly impressive i'll say.

23 minutes is indeed impressive! Bloody good run that!

Jamie: Maybe it's just my bad luck then, but when I go to London we always slow right down for Slough, instead of pounding on through as we did in the days when I went to London regularly.

And to the last poster: Invariably I find late-running trains go slower!

 

[Waverley125]

I've not noticed a change in NXEC HSTs. Coming back fomr London one winter evening on a Valenta, driver floored it after Copenhagen tunnel, and we pulled into Stevenage something like 5 minutes early.

Ah, good memories of valentas and unrefurbished interiors...

 

[djw1981]

You're been proven right already - 0630 cancelled today so 0940 had to call and was late as a result!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Pretty sure that's not correct, but I'll check it with a GPS.
On GC (2+6) 0847 York to King's Cross we reached 98mph at Earfit Lane crossing and reached 125 just before Hambleton Jn, which was reached at 0946 and is 13.6 miles from York. I'll try NXEC out next time I get the chance to travel with them, but it'll probably be a 91 next week.

Depending on how often your GPS logs this may or may not be accurate. Some (IIRC Magellan) sample at a time interval such that on tight radius curves the data logger appears to 'straightline' the curve and hence records a shorter distance than that actually traveled. I appreciate that few NXEC HST's will be doing 125mph (or top speed, which ever it is) round tight curves, but..........

 

[Techniquest]

Ah, good memories of valentas and unrefurbished interiors...

Having two sets with unrefurbished interiors on Saturday, it was easy to drift into dreams of having pairs of Valentas on the East Coast. If I hadn't seen for fact they were both MTUs, I could have easily lost myself in the fantasy of having a Valenta on each end...

yorkie: That thing about the 0630 and 0640 from Bristol to London, it's a regular occurance. Reading of the FGW news in every copy of OTF that hits my mailbox, it appears at least once in there. At its peak last year, this was happening up to twice a week.

 

[devon_metro]

Having two sets with unrefurbished interiors on Saturday, it was easy to drift into dreams of having pairs of Valentas on the East Coast. If I hadn't seen for fact they were both MTUs, I could have easily lost myself in the fantasy of having a Valenta on each end...

yorkie: That thing about the 0630 and 0640 from Bristol to London, it's a regular occurance. Reading of the FGW news in every copy of OTF that hits my mailbox, it appears at least once in there. At its peak last year, this was happening up to twice a week.

Its rarely cancelled. You might mean the atrocious 1L19 0710 BRI-PAD via BPW

 

[Mojo]

Its rarely cancelled. You might mean the atrocious 1L19 0710 BRI-PAD via BPW

That was the appalling performer but I believe it's now been axed.

 

[Techniquest]

Not sure without digging through my copies of OTF really, but the 0710 does ring a bell.