Burnley to Manchester: Bus v Train

[anti-pacer]

At present Burnley is connected to Manchester city centre by a well-used, comfortable, Volvo B7TL bus every 15 minutes during the day. Journey times are approx 80 minutes.

When the Todmorden curve is opened and a new service is introduced, journey times will be shorter, granted, but will the new service be enough to pull passengers off a well-patroned route such as the X43?

 

[edwin_m]

The demand modelling tended indicated this would be so, along with intermediate journeys such as Burnley-Rochdale which don't much (or any?) bus service at present. We'll find out when it opens!

 

[telstarbox]

Passengers going further than Manchester may well change to the train as through tickets will be available, which will be cheaper and less hassle than buying separate tickets.

Conversely, this is one of the disadvantages of converting lines to Metrolink. A Bury - London rail ticket would probably cost the same as Manchester - London rail ticket (due to fare clustering), but passengers now have to buy separate Bury-Manchester (Metrolink) and Metrolink-London (rail) tickets.

 

[anti-pacer]

The demand modelling tended indicated this would be so, along with intermediate journeys such as Burnley-Rochdale which don't much (or any?) bus service at present. We'll find out when it opens!

There is an hourly bus service from Burnley to Rochdale via Todmorden, operated by First Calderdale. If you change buses in Todmorden or Bacup on other routes, there's more alternatives.

 

[northwichcat]

A Bury - London rail ticket would probably cost the same as Manchester - London rail ticket (due to fare clustering), but passengers now have to buy separate Bury-Manchester (Metrolink) and Metrolink-London (rail) tickets.

Looking at current fares I don't agree completely but I think it may well have been only £1-£2 extra for Bury-London over Manchester-London if Bury-Manchester was still National Rail.

 

[34D]

Is a date known for this, yet?

This will become the only railway line in west yorkshire on which WYPTE tickets aren't valid (I think - or does the ECML Selby deviation just touch WY at some point?).

 

[radamfi]

This will become the only railway line in west yorkshire on which WYPTE tickets aren't valid (I think - or does the ECML Selby deviation just touch WY at some point?).

Is the Burnley to Manchester service not going to stop both at Walsden and Todmorden?

 

[mirodo]

May 2014 for the first services along the curve.
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Is the Burnley to Manchester service not going to stop both at Walsden and Todmorden?

Blackburn - Accrington - Rose Grove - Burnley M'cr Road - Todmorden - Rochdale - Manchester Vic is apparently the plan.

It will also call at Church & Oswaldtwistle on Sundays only.

 

[anti-pacer]

May 2014 for the first services along the curve.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Blackburn - Accrington - Rose Grove - Burnley M'cr Road - Todmorden - Rochdale - Manchester Vic is apparently the plan.

It will also call at Church & Oswaldtwistle on Sundays only.

What sort of journey times are planned from Burnley to Todmorden, Rochdale and Manchester?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I wonder when the last time was when Rose Grove had a direct rail service to Burnley Manchester Road.

 

[northwichcat]

It is also proposed that it will be an existing Rochdale service that is extended not an additional Rochdale-Manchester service.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

What sort of journey times are planned from Burnley to Todmorden, Rochdale and Manchester?

I'd estimate about 22 mins Burnley-Todmorden, then roughly as per the fasts now, which are 10 mins Todmorden-Rochale, then roughly 15-17 mins Rochdale-Victoria. Burnley-Manchester should be roughly 50-55 minutes.

 

[mirodo]

I wonder when the last time was when Rose Grove had a direct rail service to Burnley Manchester Road.

It was some point in the 1990s when it was removed as a stop on the Blackpool North-York service.

It would make sense to reintroduce this as well, IMO.

 

[radamfi]

It is also proposed that it will be an existing Rochdale service that is extended not an additional Rochdale-Manchester service.

There are 4 tph Rochdale to Manchester. 2 tph stop at Castleton, Mills Hill and Moston, one of them starts from Rochdale and the other one goes into Yorkshire. So if the new service runs non-stop from Rochdale to Manchester then 2 out of the 3 trains to Leeds will need to stop at Castleton, Mills Hill and Moston to keep those stations having 2 tph.

 

[D1009]

At present Burnley is connected to Manchester city centre by a well-used, comfortable, Volvo B7TL bus every 15 minutes during the day. Journey times are approx 80 minutes.

Is the bus journey time reliable?

 

[northwichcat]

Is the bus journey time reliable?

I've used the bus on the Manchester-Rawtenstall part at off-peak times and found it reliable. Extra time is allowed at peak times. It runs via the motorway between Prestwich and Rawtenstall and uses double decker buses with high back leather seats, generous leg room and arm rests on the upper deck so for the rail service to compete it really does need to run express on Rochdale-Manchester and really needs refurbished rolling stock.

 

[anti-pacer]

I've used the bus on the Manchester-Rawtenstall part at off-peak times and found it reliable. Extra time is allowed at peak times. It runs via the motorway between Prestwich and Rawtenstall and uses double decker buses with high back leather seats, generous leg room and arm rests on the upper deck so for the rail service to compete it really does need to run express on Rochdale-Manchester and really needs refurbished rolling stock.

It's also worth noting that since these buses were introduced, patronage on this service has risen somewhat.

Whenever I've been on these buses they've been busy from Burnley. I think they could introduce some peak hour services from Nelson/Brierfield/Burnley via the M65/A56 dual carriageway/M66/Bowker Vale Metrolink to Manchester city centre.

 

[Starmill]

Conversely, this is one of the disadvantages of converting lines to Metrolink. A Bury - London rail ticket would probably cost the same as Manchester - London rail ticket (due to fare clustering), but passengers now have to buy separate Bury-Manchester (Metrolink) and Metrolink-London (rail) tickets.

Infuriating, isn't it? Imagine anyone getting a ticket from London Terminals to Bury... you'd probably have to be mental.

 

[radamfi]

The Burnley to Manchester bus service has had relatively high spec vehicles for some time. Stagecoach used Plaxton Interurban coaches in the 90s until sale to Blazefield who replaced them with double deckers.

 

[northwichcat]

Infuriating, isn't it? Imagine anyone getting a ticket from London Terminals to Bury... you'd probably have to be mental.

It's actually the reverse journey that's the bigger problem. You can buy a ticket from a National Rail station to a Metrolink station but can't buy the reverse.

Then if there's Metrolink disruption your Bury-Manchester Metrolink ticket won't be accepted by Virgin Train Managers as an excuse for missing your booked Manchester-London train and then you're £70+ out-of-pocket as a result and the most Metrolink will compensate you by is a free day ticket.

 

[johnnychips]

The Burnley to Manchester bus service has had relatively high spec vehicles for some time. Stagecoach used Plaxton Interurban coaches in the 90s until sale to Blazefield who replaced them with double deckers.

We old people can remember Ribble having some rather nice buses on this route in the 70s.

 

[Starmill]

It's actually the reverse journey that's the bigger problem. You can buy a ticket from a National Rail station to a Metrolink station but can't buy the reverse.

Then if there's Metrolink disruption your Bury-Manchester Metrolink ticket won't be accepted by Virgin Train Managers as an excuse for missing your booked Manchester-London train and then you're £70+ out-of-pocket as a result and the most Metrolink will compensate you by is a free day ticket.

I know, I was joking about their ridiculous cost. And the apparent lack of any reason to buy one as its just Manchester STNS+ tram fare isn't it? Anyway I hadn't thought about the tram delay being a reason to miss a booked train. There aren't any advances available to Metrolink stations though... Certainly is good advice: if you are using Metrolink early morning or late evening... check that there is actually a tram (sunday) leave lots of time (every day).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

We old people can remember Ribble having some rather nice buses on this route in the 70s.

Seconded.
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There is an hourly bus service from Burnley to Rochdale via Todmorden, operated by First Calderdale. If you change buses in Todmorden or Bacup on other routes, there's more alternatives.

This will be the ubiquitous service 589 which runs Monday to Saturday and is scheduled to take 80 minutes for the journey. TfGM refer to the operator as First Halifax in the timetable.