Bus max load display. Still mandatory?

[fandroid]

I realise that just about every bus I've been on has had a publicly displayed notice saying what the max nos. of seated and standing passengers are. I'm on this Stagecoach South bus and I cannot see one. Was it mandatory and is it still so now?

 

[Surreyman]

I realise that just about every bus I've been on has had a publicly displayed notice saying what the max nos. of seated and standing passengers are. I'm on this Stagecoach South bus and I cannot see one. Was it mandatory and is it still so now?

Don't the answer to that one, going slightly off on a tangent, I regularly travel on Stagecoach E200s and looking at the seated/standing/wheelchair capacity combinations, I think that the maximum standing numbers allowed would be physically impossible to exceed on an E200.

 

[duncombec]

Aren't the maximum capacities worked on a purely weight calculation basis, not physical space?

They are in a variety of positions - you may find it is tucked away above the driver's head, only visible if you duck below assault screen fittings. Above the door is another common placement nowadays.

 

[richw]

Aren't the maximum capacities worked on a purely weight calculation basis, not physical space?

Yes, there is a legal weight you treat each person as whether they are 50kg or 150kg. The given weight includes a bag for each passenger at an assumed weight too. Going back it used to be the case that 3 children only counted as 2 people, but I can’t find reference to that in current rules.
You’ll find small e200mmcs have a ridiculous standing capacity due to having the same chassis and max gross weight as their bigger versions.

 

[SSmith2009]

the GB Kite electric single deckers that First have in Leicester have a standing capacity of 40

**EDIT**

the max standing capacity is 57 overall capacity of 90

 

[busken]

It always surprises me that buses quite rightly have a maximum capacity due to weight issues, but trains have no limits at all!

 

[Towers]

It always surprises me that buses quite rightly have a maximum capacity due to weight issues, but trains have no limits at all!

Quite simply, you can’t police it on a train and so it would have zero value. Trains are also a lot heavier duty than a bus, and they generally won’t exert the same potentially sudden forces on passengers as a road vehicle might do; for example when cornering or if it is necessary to brake sharply.

 

[WestCountry]

It always surprises me that buses quite rightly have a maximum capacity due to weight issues, but trains have no limits at all!

Trains are designed to carry 7 passengers per m² of standing space, plus those seated, which is about as many as can physically fit so the 'limit' is self-enforcing.

In the current issue of Modern Railways, Ian Walmsley mentions that being an issue when removing seats from 455s to create more standing space - the loads on the bodyshell/bogies/axleboxes had to be recalculated and were right on the design limits.

 

[Deerfold]

Trains are designed to carry 7 passengers per m² of standing space, plus those seated, which is about as many as can physically fit so the 'limit' is self-enforcing.

In the current issue of Modern Railways, Ian Walmsley mentions that being an issue when removing seats from 455s to create more standing space - the loads on the bodyshell/bogies/axleboxes had to be recalculated and were right on the design limits.

On an occasion when we were sardine packed at Kings Cross after several cancellations the driver announced we wouldn't be going anywhere unless some people got off as the train was overloaded.

 

[jp4712]

I realise that just about every bus I've been on has had a publicly displayed notice saying what the max nos. of seated and standing passengers are. I'm on this Stagecoach South bus and I cannot see one. Was it mandatory and is it still so now?

Yes, it has been mandatory since the passing of the Road Traffic Act 1930. It’s also mandatory to display the unladen weight on the outside, along with the address of the vehicle’s operator (known as the legal address).

The relationship between weight and number of passengers is twofold: firstly the gross weight (including passengers) is limited by law, and secondly the tilt test must be passed with weights to represent passengers strapped to seats (upstairs only in the case of a double decker). There have been occasional examples in the past of buses having to have the seating capacity reduced, because of an inability to meet one of these requirements.

 

[joieman]

Slight tangent, I rode on a Wright Pulsar 2 (63-plate, I think) of Arriva's on the 16 and noticed that the maximum total capacity was the same (77) whether more or fewer people were standing or sitting.

 

[TravelDream]

Yes, there is a legal weight you treat each person as whether they are 50kg or 150kg. The given weight includes a bag for each passenger at an assumed weight too. Going back it used to be the case that 3 children only counted as 2 people, but I can’t find reference to that in current rules.
You’ll find small e200mmcs have a ridiculous standing capacity due to having the same chassis and max gross weight as their bigger versions.

Do you know what that weight is?

The ones airlines use is comically low for 2024.

An adult plus their hand luggage is taken to be 84kg. If it's a holiday charter, the weight is (for whatever reason) 76kg.

A child, plus their hand luggage, is 35kg. Even for holiday charters.


Now go on the average Jet2 flight to Alicante and tell me the average adult along with their hand luggage is 76kg. If you think so, I have magic beans to sell...

 

[Qwerty133]

Slight tangent, I rode on a Wright Pulsar 2 (63-plate, I think) of Arriva's on the 16 and noticed that the maximum total capacity was the same (77) whether more or fewer people were standing or sitting.

Which given it is based entirely on weight makes absolute sense (although I think at one point a wheelchair user counted as 2 or 3 people for the calculation).
Of course in many cases it will not be physically possible to get the full number of standing passengers on board.

 

[PG]

Do you know what that weight is?

Item 3, Section 6 of Part II of
The Public Service Vehicles (Conditions of Fitness, Equipment, Use and Certification) Regulations 1981
helpfully gives the weight of a person

(3) For the purposes of this Regulation 63.5 kilograms shall be deemed to represent the weight of one person.

 

[plugwash]

It always surprises me that buses quite rightly have a maximum capacity due to weight issues, but trains have no limits at all!

My understanding is that on trains they simply assume it will be crush-loaded and design accordingly.

IIRC when they did the 769 conversions they had to add seats to reduce weight (seating gives less "crush-laden weight" for a given area than standing passengers does)