Calls for an express train service from Portsmouth to London

[Lockwood]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/lo...n-service-from-portsmouth-to-london-1-5933928

AN express train should be introduced on the south coast’s rail network.


Speaking during a parliamentary adjournment debate yesterday, Portsmouth North MP Penny Mordaunt said South West Trains should run a half-hourly service made up of 10 carriages during the week.

She said the scheme could be named the ‘Portsmouth Flyer’ or ‘Navy Express’ to symbolise a more ‘charming’ age of the railway.

The move, she believes, would help to relieve passenger congestion.

Ms Mordaunt said: ‘As an express it would not stop in the suburban commuter belt, and as it would be at the same times each weekday, Portsmouth residents could adjust their routine to catch it, thereby relieving the crush for suburban commuters on stopping services.

‘My constituents and I are realistic enough to recognise that whole-scale change is not going to happen, but there is a change which could be made in the short term which would do much to relieve the strain on south coast commuters.’

The fasts do more stops in Hampshire than they do in the London suburbs.
Is Penny wanting them to go fast from Fratton?
Would pathing allow for that?
If only Havant still had the line(s) through the middle of it.

ISTR a super fast yonks ago, Portsmouth Harbour, Portsmouth & Southsea, Fratton, Havant, Guildford, Waterloo?

 

[GodAtum]

Interesting idea. the Portsmouth trains are usually full by the time they get to Guildford.

 

[swt_passenger]

They'll love this in places such as Petersfield and Haslemere won't they...

 

[sonic2009]

So if this MP is suggesting an express train? how long does she want it to take? taking into account line speeds, pathing issues etc.

A question to answer, currently what is the fastest service Portsmouth to London?

 

[Greenback]

Quite apart from the intermediate stations en route, what about those people who may want alight at interchanges in the suburban commuter belt?

 

[neilm]

I guess they want something similar to what Brighton has, and off peak express service.

 

[eastwestdivide]

...
ISTR a super fast yonks ago, Portsmouth Harbour, Portsmouth & Southsea, Fratton, Havant, Guildford, Waterloo?

Don't know if this counts as yonks (or super fast), but Summer Sats in the 1978 timetable, there were three limited stop Waterloo-Guildford-Portsmouth Harbour trains, taking 1h30, as well as some Waterloo-Woking-Guildford-Havant-Portsmouth Harbour, taking 1h31.
Presumably catering for the massive influx of holidaymakers to the Isle of Wight?

Today's 1500 from Waterloo takes 1h33, and stops at 7 intermediate stations.

 

[Greenback]

The GW main line also has more calls than used to be the case. Much as some would like non stop trains to/from Newport missing out Bristol Parkway, Swindon, Didcot and Reading, it's a fact that these calling points have become increaingly important down the years.

 

[30909]

I think the issue is not the overall speed, best off peak to Waterloo 1hr 36? cutting out a few intermediate stops would save little in time except where 2 minutes dwell time is allowed in the public timetable at Haslemere and Guildford, though not at Woking where there must be some pathing allowance as most Portsmouth direct wait at least 2 minutes.
Despite the interchange facilities at Guildford and Woking, off peak ,there are 2 ex Portsmouth Harbour 1 ex Portsmouth and Southsea currently supplying the interchange/destination needs of those south of Haslemere. Importantly, and this has been discussed in other threads, it's the loading of morning peak passengers to Waterloo from both interchanges that, I believe, gives rise to the thoughts that a "fast" or faster service would be an improvement and may mean less overcrowding if Guildford and Woking were missed. This is the same in the down direction in the evening, so perhaps an hourly last/ first stop Haslemere would meet the perceived need.

 

[transmanche]

The GW main line also has more calls than used to be the case. Much as some would like non stop trains to/from Newport missing out Bristol Parkway, Swindon, Didcot and Reading, it's a fact that these calling points have become increaingly important down the years.

ISTR that the inaugural IC125 journey was the 08:05 Paddington-Bristol calling at Reading and Bath.

Nowadays the 08:00 also calls at Didcot Pkwy, Swindon and Chippenham.

 

[455driver]

There must be a local election soon!

Okay so she thinks these Fasts will reduce the crowding on the present services so what trains do the displaced passengers catch?

There are no paths to run more services and everything else is crush loaded already.

 

[TEW]

There's no way you could path 2 super-fast train an hour along the route. There's already 2 fasts and 1 stopping service south of Haslemere, with another stopping service past Haslemere. When Weymouth or Crosscountry services are diverted via Guildford they always end up with poor paths and have to follow a slow service, the same thing would happen with super-fast trains too. The notion that there is demand for a half-hourly 10 carriage service in the off-peak is laughable too. Off-Peak at the moment a 5-car 444 can cope with the demand on the fast services, and even then a lot of the passengers are to/from Guildford. The current service is already at the same time every weekday, outside of the peak anyway. Fast services leave Portsmouth at xx15 and xx45 and Waterloo at xx00 and xx30. That's a pretty decent and memorable service level.

 

[Carlisle]

Don't know if this counts as yonks (or super fast), but Summer Sats in the 1978 timetable, there were three limited stop Waterloo-Guildford-Portsmouth Harbour trains, taking 1h30, as well as some Waterloo-Woking-Guildford-Havant-Portsmouth Harbour, taking 1h31.
Presumably catering for the massive influx of holidaymakers to the Isle of Wight?

Today's 1500 from Waterloo takes 1h33, and stops at 7 intermediate stations.

That's interesting ,I also remember a very early 1980s inter city network map giving fastest journey times and Portsmouth was 1hr 26 mins exactly as you say excluding the 4 mins extra to the harbour station

 

[Flamingo]

The GW main line also has more calls than used to be the case. Much as some would like non stop trains to/from Newport missing out Bristol Parkway, Swindon, Didcot and Reading, it's a fact that these calling points have become increaingly important down the years.

The one that would be preferable is one that only stops Cardiff & Swansea once it gets through the tunnel.

 

[asylumxl]

There must be a local election soon!

Okay so she thinks these Fasts will reduce the crowding on the present services so what trains do the displaced passengers catch?

There are no paths to run more services and everything else is crush loaded already.

I suggest sending her an estimate for the capacity improvement works it would need.

I don't use the route often but it doesn't take that long. All this would really help is her in going to Westminster.

 

[mister-sparky]

There must be an election in Portsmouth soon...

 

[455driver]

Speeding the route up would be a nightmare as well as it is almost like marching with the amount of corners on it, left right left right left right station left right left right left right left station left right left right etc etc.

 

[Carlisle]

So a dedicated fleet of pendolinos or future displaced 221s may be the solution

 

[455driver]

So a dedicated fleet of pendolinos or future displaced 221s may be the solution

How can I put this politely?
Um ponders for a moment!

SOD OFF!

Yep that about covers it!

Edit-
Either of those solutions would leave half the passengers behind so not really much use.

 

[Matt Taylor]

There is significant interchange traffic at Havant, Guildford and Woking so the only stops that could be missed realistically are Petersfield and Haslemere but Haslemere has a 30mph speed limit through the loop platform so there is no great saving. There is no spare capacity at Portsmouth Harbour or Portsmouth & Southsea for these services, there is no spare capacity at Woking junction without a reliability penalty. Where exactly are 12 x 444 units going to be sourced from? And who will crew these trains? Fratton and Waterloo depots are already relying on rest day work to keep everything covered.

This whole idea is ridiculous but sounds par for the course for someone trying to make a splash to further their media career. She deserves credit however for being the better of the two Portsmouth MPs, those of us in South Portsmouth are represented by Mike Hancock.

 

[swt_passenger]

This whole idea is ridiculous but sounds par for the course for someone trying to make a splash to further their media career.

LOL

Nice in joke - many people wouldn't get that, based on the viewing figures...

Of course it's the same argument that you sometimes hear about the Southampton service. Back in whenever there were non-stop Southampton to Waterloo services, so why not today? What do you do about the hundreds who get on at Parkway and Winchester...

 

[Lockwood]

I groaned when I read that.
If they were to rebuild platform 2 at the Harbour, would that deal with the capacity issue? At least as a place to dump a unit while other movements are happening?

The comment about an easier ride to Westminster; I'm having visions of a chord linking the PDL to the Underground. I guess it'd have to go on to the C&D lines for clearance. Heh, or build a tunnel from Portsmouth and have a Shanklin-Westminster service entering the Jubilee platform(!)


How would a Portsmouth Harbour - Portsmouth & Southsea - Fratton - London Victoria service work out?

 

[hassaanhc]

The current ~90 minute journey time is around 30 minutes shorter than the alternatives, unless she keeps taking the stopping service or Southern which do take 2 hours, same as the coach. Methinks someone needs to leave earlier
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
She's lucky, if she lives near 'Southsea or 'Harbour stations then she can get to Westminster in 2 hours, if I were to commute between home and uni which are wholly in London it would take that long.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Platform 2 at the harbour is not coming back without a complete rebuild of the supporting structure under the entire station. A possible alternative could be Portsmouth to Vic/Waterloo via the Arun Valley then Horsham and Epsom but I don't think it would be quicker, and how would the revenue be split?

Years ago there was a xx50 and xx20 from the harbour to Waterloo with the current calling points plus Godalming, in addition there was a 'super fast' xx20 from Southsea calling at Fratton, Havant, Guildford and then direct to Waterloo via the 'new line' (Cobham) but it didn't really work as the demand just wasn't there for 3 fasts per hour plus the stopper.

To be honest the best way forward (very expensive) would be to reopen Portsmouth-Fareham-Wickham-Alton-Waterloo, that would relieve the overcrowding by diverting passengers who would otherwise change at Guildford or travel from Cosham/Fareham.

 

[jopsuk]

It's basically just a call to get more "white trains" on the Portsmouth Direct, isn't it?

 

[hassaanhc]

It's basically just a call to get more "white trains" on the Portsmouth Direct, isn't it?

Doesn't take a genius to work that out... Anyone else think these people are ridiculous? Its not as if they're the only people spending 90 minutes on a 450, what about Waterloo-Aldershot via Frimley which is around 90 minutes too yet no one says anything? Or does that route use something else?

 

[Francis]

97 minutes (fast) for the 79 mile journey Waterloo - Portsmouth Harbour. At average speed under 49 mph, it must be one of the slowest "fast runs" from London to a major conurbation. Can anyone find anything slower? I think the MP is just doing her job, speaking up for her constituents.

 

[TEW]

Doesn't take a genius to work that out... Anyone else think these people are ridiculous? Its not as if they're the only people spending 90 minutes on a 450, what about Waterloo-Aldershot via Frimley which is around 90 minutes too yet no one says anything? Or does that route use something else?

It's mainly 458s but one of the services in the evening is a 450. There's no reason to travel from London-Aldershot via Ascot though, the service via Woking is much better.

 

[asylumxl]

97 minutes (fast) for the 79 mile journey Waterloo - Portsmouth Harbour. At average speed under 49 mph, it must be one of the slowest "fast runs" from London to a major conurbation. Can anyone find anything slower? I think the MP is just doing her job, speaking up for her constituents.

I'm inclined to say that's a reasonable average speed for a journey with several stops. The Brighton Express averages only 59mph which is not considerably faster.

 

[Matt Taylor]

It takes just under 20 minutes just to do the first eight miles to Havant. The line suffers from poor deviations leading to some tight turns through the south downs, plus the 30mph limit either end of Guildford and capacity issues at Woking Junction and Havant Junction lead to slow speeds overall.

Northampton and Havant are the same distance from London, Havant takes 80 minutes and Northampton takes 55 minutes-despite using almost identical stock.