Can a Delay Repay claim be submitted if the delay was known at the time of purchase?

[tskir]

This is my case from today. Station names and times are simplified as they aren't important for the actual question.

I wanted to travel on the train departing station A 15:00 and arriving at station B 15:10. However, from live tracking it was clear that the train was late by approximately 40 minutes.

I ended up buying my ticket at 15:30, boarding the late train at 15:40, and arriving at a destination at 15:50, with a 40 minute delay overall.

Can I still submit a Delay Repay claim even though, at the time of buying the ticket, the delay was “known”? The train operator did not issue a “do not travel” notice or anything of the like, it was just a usual disruption.

 

[signed]

Advance or flexible tickets?

 

[sheff1]

You can submit a claim. Whether it will be paid - who knows, might well depend on which (automatic) system the TOC uses.

 

[Hadders]

I wanted to travel on the train departing station A 15:00 and arriving at station B 15:10. However, from live tracking it was clear that the train was late by approximately 40 minutes.

I ended up buying my ticket at 15:30, boarding the late train at 15:40, and arriving at a destination at 15:50, with a 40 minute delay overall.

By all means submit a claim but I think you could struggle here because the train company could argue that you couldn't be in a position to travel at 15:00 if you didn't purchase your ticket until 15:10.

 

[John R]

By all means submit a claim but I think you could struggle here because the train company could argue that you couldn't be in a position to travel at 15:00 if you didn't purchase your ticket until 15:10.

That’s my thinking. I live 5 mins walk away from my local station, so when a train I am planning to catch is delayed or cancelled, I always walk down and buy the ticket prior to its scheduled departure time. That way there can be no ambiguity, and no risk that an online purchase will stop me from purchasing for that train.

 

[tskir]

Advance or flexible tickets?

Fair question — it was Off-Peak Day Return. Also worth noting that, in the itinerary, it was a later train (departing station A at 16:00), because at 15:30 Trainpal would not let me buy a ticket for a 15:00 train even though it hasn't actually arrived yet. However it of course shouldn't matter for Off-Peak Day Return as either train was eligible.

By all means submit a claim but I think you could struggle here because the train company could argue that you couldn't be in a position to travel at 15:00 if you didn't purchase your ticket until 15:10.

Yes, I see what you mean. There isn't a lot of money hanging in the balance here, as it was a short journey, so I'm more curious about this edge case so to speak. I'll try submitting a claim and see what happens.

 

[tram21]

I'm always curious about this, and afaik you are fully eligible for delay repay. My thinking is though, if you can see, for example, the ECML is severely disrupted and you will definitely be over an hour late, could you not just get an Anytime 1st Single to Inverness and get it fully refunded?

 

[The exile]

I'm always curious about this, and afaik you are fully eligible for delay repay. My thinking is though, if you can see, for example, the ECML is severely disrupted and you will definitely be over an hour late, could you not just get an Anytime 1st Single to Inverness and get it fully refunded?

Why, though?

By all means submit a claim but I think you could struggle here because the train company could argue that you couldn't be in a position to travel at 15:00 if you didn't purchase your ticket until 15:10.

I can’t believe you have a valid claim, because if you did, someone turning up at a station at 15.40 to catch the 16.00 and discovering that the 15.00 hadn’t left would be able to claim despite having (possibly) arrived at their destination earlier than planned.

 

[Belperpete]

DR pays out for how late YOU arrive at your destination station, not how late a train runs. So when you submit a DR claim, you have to include YOUR intended itinerary. Is a ticket purchased at 15:30 valid for an itinerary commencing at 15:00?

Buying a ticket at 15:30 means either you didn't intend travelling on the 15:00 train, or were aware that it was running late. I seem to recall that there used to be a condition that DR didn't apply if you were aware that the train was delayed when you bought the ticket - does that condition still apply?

 

[Jamiescott1]

I'm never sure. Every day I take the same time train (5 days a week, 40+ weeks a year). I live 5 minutes from the station (which has no indoor waiting area).
If I see my train is delayed before I leave home so therefore stay at home longer, arriving at the station after the train was timetabled to leave but in time for the delayed train. Can I claim delay repay if arriving at my destination later than timetabled?

 

[Haywain]

DR pays out for how late YOU arrive at your destination station, not how late a train runs. So when you submit a DR claim, you have to include YOUR intended itinerary. Is a ticket purchased at 15:30 valid for an itinerary commencing at 15:00?

Buying a ticket at 15:30 means either you didn't intend travelling on the 15:00 train, or were aware that it was running late. I seem to recall that there used to be a condition that DR didn't apply if you were aware that the train was delayed when you bought the ticket - does that condition still apply?

So, if I am on my way to a station when I find out that trains are at a standstill, you would have me go to the station and buy a ticket rather than finding something better to do while things sort themselves out? And because I didn't go to the station and buy a ticket that means I wasn't planning to make that journey? I am pleased to say that when that happened to me the Delay Repay was paid out without any query.

The point is that these things aren't as black and white as some might like them to be.

 

[BazingaTribe]

Ethically I don't think it's a good idea for the reasons Belperpete quotes. If they look at the time you bought the ticket they may side-eye it. I'm not an expert, as I've never bothered claiming (although there have been journeys I probably could have claimed, I honestly couldn't care less), but you'd be on stronger ground if you'd bought your ticket before you knew it was delayed and before the original departure time.

But I'm one of those 'better safe than sorry' people.

I'd be careful with this one.

 

[sheff1]

I can’t believe you have a valid claim, because if you did, someone turning up at a station at 15.40 to catch the 16.00 and discovering that the 15.00 hadn’t left would be able to claim despite having (possibly) arrived at their destination earlier than planned.

Any such claim would be fraudulent and is not same as the OP’s situation.

I seem to recall that there used to be a condition that DR didn't apply if you were aware that the train was delayed when you bought the ticket - does that condition still apply?

Some TOCs state that. In practice they though they have paid out in such circumstances.

 

[BazingaTribe]

So, if I am on my way to a station when I find out that trains are at a standstill, you would have me go to the station and buy a ticket rather than finding something better to do while things sort themselves out? And because I didn't go to the station and buy a ticket that means I wasn't planning to make that journey? I am pleased to say that when that happened to me the Delay Repay was paid out without any query.

The point is that these things aren't as black and white as some might like them to be.

For me it would depend on how badly the delay knocked my other plans off the shelf. A few weeks ago, as luck would have it, I got to the station early thinking I'd have some lunch there, only to catch a severely delayed train to my destination. If I hadn't caught it, I'd have been delayed such that my evening plans would have been completely wrecked and it wouldn't have been worth even travelling. That would have had me claiming a refund for abandoned journey, similar to the time I abandoned plans to go out for a day trip because it was pelting it down and the trip itself was cancelled and didn't realise I could get the ticket refunded simply because I didn't bother going out (I know better now after a couple of times of buying the wrong ticket for the wrong day or in the wrong direction).

If it was such that I could take or leave the delay and it wasn't fatal to anything else, like a trip home from Aldershot the other night that took a while longer than I expected it to...I think it would feel less worth the hassle. The damage to my evening plans to hammer some random players on Fortnite notwithstanding, the trip wasn't worth trying to claim it.

 

[Haywain]

I got to the station early thinking I'd have some lunch there, only to catch a severely delayed train to my destination. If I hadn't caught it, I'd have been delayed such that my evening plans would have been completely wrecked and it wouldn't have been worth even travelling. That would have had me claiming a refund for abandoned journey, similar to the time I abandoned plans to go out for a day trip because it was pelting it down and the trip itself was cancelled and didn't realise I could get the ticket refunded simply because I didn't bother going out (I know better now after a couple of times of buying the wrong ticket for the wrong day or in the wrong direction).

That's all irrelevant because you were not delayed, even if you caught a train that was.

 

[sheff1]

I'd be careful with this one.

Each to their own, but I see nothing to be careful about. You are delayed arriving at your destination, you make a Delay Repay claim, the TOC makes a decision, if the claim is rejected you decide whether you wish to appeal it.

 

[LAX54]

By all means submit a claim but I think you could struggle here because the train company could argue that you couldn't be in a position to travel at 15:00 if you didn't purchase your ticket until 15:10.

Ther ticket was purchased at 1530. so surely cannot claim for a train that was due at 1500 (arriving at destination at 1510) ?

 

[Southern Beau]

This topic has come up a few times.
I recall being told that I needed to be “at the station” at the time of schedule departure to be able to make a claim.
Often my trains are cancelled and one an hour, so the advice here was that I needed to be at the station and in reality hanging around for one hour for the next train.

I contacted the TOC (against the advice on here) and they actually confirmed DR was based on “intended journey” as opposed to physically being at a dark, unstaffed station and needing to be there for the original intended train.

When I asked how “intended” was defined and proved they simply said “state the train which you intended to travel on”.

I’ve kept that email and if my intended train is delayed/ cancelled, I will stay in bed an extra period of time and then travel to the station.

 

[Belperpete]

So, if I am on my way to a station when I find out that trains are at a standstill, you would have me go to the station and buy a ticket rather than finding something better to do while things sort themselves out? And because I didn't go to the station and buy a ticket that means I wasn't planning to make that journey? I am pleased to say that when that happened to me the Delay Repay was paid out without any query.

The point is that these things aren't as black and white as some might like them to be.

I was only stating what some TOCs say, not that I agree with it.

Rejecting a claim because you knew that the train was delayed when you bought the ticket seems very unfair in situations.where you have no opportunity to buy a ticket before boarding the train. Unfortunately I have had it happen to me.

 

[MrJeeves]

I've never had an issue with this on any of the TOCs I have submitted DR claims with before.

I expect you wouldn't have an issue. In my view, it's perfectly acceptable to look at the times and see you can leave it another 10 mins to leave home and buy your ticket(s), for example, and I've done it many times. I would also expect to appeal any such rejection for that reason.

 

[jamiearmley]

Imagine joining at an unstaffed station with no tvm . Your train is an hour late and you buy on board. Of course you can still claim in that situation, and yours is no different.

Make the claim and good luck!

 

[Belperpete]

Imagine joining at an unstaffed station with no tvm . Your train is an hour late and you buy on board. Of course you can still claim in that situation, and yours is no different.

Make the claim and good luck!

Of course you can claim in that situation - whether you get paid anything is another matter (I don't have to imagine it, see post #19).

 

[A S Leib]

Can you include first class upgrades in delay repay claims? What happens if e.g. you get a first class upgrade from Swindon to London on a train which left Bristol half an hour late?

 

[island]

Can you include first class upgrades in delay repay claims? What happens if e.g. you get a first class upgrade from Swindon to London on a train which left Bristol half an hour late?

Yes you can include it as it was part of the ticket cost, although the more complex your request the higher the chance that it will be paid out wrongly and you will have to chase.

 

[miklcct]

Is a claim valid if I buy a ticket after the delay is known, but still before the scheduled departure time?

Also, in the case of Oyster PAYG, it isn't possible to buy a ticket in advance, and if I tap well before the train arrives, it will time out before arriving the destination. In this case how will the claim work?

 

[AdamWW]

Is a claim valid if I buy a ticket after the delay is known, but still before the scheduled departure time?

Also, in the case of Oyster PAYG, it isn't possible to buy a ticket in advance, and if I tap well before the train arrives, it will time out before arriving the destination. In this case how will the claim work?

I think one of the benefits of contactless for the railway is that it prevents people from purchasing tickets in advance and therefore acquiring contractual rights.

 

[Haywain]

I think one of the benefits of contactless for the railway is that it prevents people from purchasing tickets in advance and therefore acquiring contractual rights.

And yet they pay out on Delay Repay in spite of that.

 

[miklcct]

I think one of the benefits of contactless for the railway is that it prevents people from purchasing tickets in advance and therefore acquiring contractual rights.

It also benefits passengers by not requiring them to decide the route before travelling, as the fare is only known after travelling.

 

[AdamWW]

And yet they pay out on Delay Repay in spite of that.

I was thinking of other contractual rights, e.g. the obligation to provide alternate transport if required.

But it's good to know that I can still get Delay Repay even if the delay was known before I tapped in.

 

[lachlan]

I'm never sure. Every day I take the same time train (5 days a week, 40+ weeks a year). I live 5 minutes from the station (which has no indoor waiting area).
If I see my train is delayed before I leave home so therefore stay at home longer, arriving at the station after the train was timetabled to leave but in time for the delayed train. Can I claim delay repay if arriving at my destination later than timetabled?

Yes you can still claim - though I would buy the ticket at the earliest oppurtunity.

This topic has come up a few times.
I recall being told that I needed to be “at the station” at the time of schedule departure to be able to make a claim.
Often my trains are cancelled and one an hour, so the advice here was that I needed to be at the station and in reality hanging around for one hour for the next train.

I contacted the TOC (against the advice on here) and they actually confirmed DR was based on “intended journey” as opposed to physically being at a dark, unstaffed station and needing to be there for the original intended train.

When I asked how “intended” was defined and proved they simply said “state the train which you intended to travel on”.

I’ve kept that email and if my intended train is delayed/ cancelled, I will stay in bed an extra period of time and then travel to the station.

Indeed- I've had cases where successive trains are cancelled and I haven't left home until I can see that one is running. I'm travelling one or two hours later than I wanted to so I claim delay repay. In these cases though I'd already purchased a ticket.