Can a 'same day' return ticket be used on a train that leaves before 4am that arrives about 5am.

[Seaside1]

I have been given mixed responses from staff. If I were to have an Off-peak day return ticket on a Friday returning after midnight on the Saturday early morning (its about a 1 hour journey on a single train (ie no changing trains) - it leaves before 4am but arrives about 5am):- CAN THE RETURN TICKET BE USED ON THIS PARTICULAR TRAIN? PS Section 4 of the following link ** mentions "4.29am" but its not that clear. Also if we compare it to the TFL FAQs, for TFL they say that the journey only needs to be started before 4.30am - I know this is TFL so not specifically relevant but its a similar issue).
** =https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46590.aspx

 

[Watershed]

I have been given mixed responses from staff. If I were to have an Off-peak day return ticket on a Friday returning after midnight on the Saturday early morning (its about a 1 hour journey on a single train (ie no changing trains) - it leaves before 4am but arrives about 5am):- CAN THE RETURN TICKET BE USED ON THIS PARTICULAR TRAIN? PS Section 4 of the following link ** mentions "4.29am" but its not that clear. Also if we compare it to the TFL FAQs, for TFL they say that the journey only needs to be started before 4.30am - I know this is TFL so not specifically relevant but its a similar issue).
** =https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46590.aspx

No, the journey needs to be completed by 04:29, and so you can only take a return service with a scheduled arrival time of 04:29 or earlier. If the train is delayed, your ticket remains valid.

You could use your day return as far as the last station with a scheduled arrival of 04:29 or earlier, and then buy another single from there onwards. In some cases it will be cheaper to buy a period return ticket, or two singles.

And if you had a station with, say, an arrival of 04:29 but a departure of 04:30, it may still be cheaper to 'split' at the previous station, such that your departure from there is before 04:30 - as this will typically mean that you can use an Off-Peak ticket from there to your home station.

There are plenty of split ticketing sites which will find you the cheapest option.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No. On an Off Peak Day Single or Return all travel must be complete by 0429 inclusive.

On an Off Peak Single or the outward part of an Off Peak Return (not day, nor the return half of the Off Peak Return), you can go into the day after the end of validity "if the journey cannot be completed in this time" (the wording is for debate, but it seems clear that continuing past 0429 would be fine provided ticket restrictions didn't bar that, which some do because barring travel from 0430 to 0930 is a very common Off Peak restriction).

If you read it properly that all seems quite clear from your link.

TfL's policy isn't relevant.