Can a SmartCard hold single tickets without barrier issues?

[Roy1234]

A friend with a RailCard recently tried buying tickets (for one day only) and loading each one onto her SmartCard, but despite the process seemingly working, she found her SmartCard always failed to work at the barriers. She went back to buying paper tickets.

Now as I'm eligible for a Railcard, I want to use its discount which is greater than the annual season ticket discount. Yes, I do realise they cannot be combined. This fact blocks me from getting an annual season ticket with my new railcard's discount. So I was planning to buy individual daily tickets on the SmartCard app and carry my Senior Railcard in case asked for it; also because I may reduce my working week making fewer trips, another saving. But concerned about my friend's card failure at the barriers when doing this, I asked a knowledgeable traveller who works within the rail industry. He said 'SmartCards don't work with single tickets, only weekly or more'.

This amazed me, as it's counter to what the TOC website says, but he was adamant about it, and it does bear out my friend's barrier problems. He said they can hold up to five tickets, the last one being 'iffy'. But my friend's solitary ticket on her SmartCard failed at the barrier, never mind five of them.

But nowhere are we told to avoid SmartCards for single trips unless we want barrier issues. Is this all true and if so why?

 

[Mainline421]

Smartcards definitely can hold single tickets, and work barriers fine. Although I did find that a small % of tickets don't get removed properly when fully used meaning that if you use it regularly they get full and stop working after 6 months or so.

 

[Haywain]

I asked a knowledgeable traveller who works within the rail industry. He said 'SmartCards don't work with single tickets, only weekly or more'.

Not so knowledgeable then?

 

[Watershed]

A friend with a RailCard recently tried buying tickets (for one day only) and loading each one onto her SmartCard, but despite the process seemingly working, she found her SmartCard always failed to work at the barriers. She went back to buying paper tickets.

Now as I'm eligible for a Railcard, I want to use its discount which is greater than the annual season ticket discount. Yes, I do realise they cannot be combined. This fact blocks me from getting an annual season ticket with my new railcard's discount. So I was planning to buy individual daily tickets on the SmartCard app and carry my Senior Railcard in case asked for it; also because I may reduce my working week making fewer trips, another saving. But concerned about my friend's card failure at the barriers when doing this, I asked a knowledgeable traveller who works within the rail industry. He said 'SmartCards don't work with single tickets, only weekly or more'.

This amazed me, as it's counter to what the TOC website says, but he was adamant about it, and it does bear out my friend's barrier problems. He said they can hold up to five tickets, the last one being 'iffy'. But my friend's solitary ticket on her SmartCard failed at the barrier, never mind five of them.

But nowhere are we told to avoid SmartCards for single trips unless we want barrier issues. Is this all true and if so why?

Your knowledgeable friend is mistaken. Smartcards can hold any ticket that is enabled for smartcard fulfilment - that includes most season tickets, as well as many single and return fares, and Flexi Seasons too.

However there seem to be so many difficulties and complexities with loading tickets onto smartcards that I really don't see the point for single or return tickets. You may as well just choose a paper ticket or eTicket instead - both methods are much simpler and quicker.

 

[WestAnglian]

I frequently load a GA smartcard with single tickets without problems.

 

[Roy1234]

Not so knowledgeable then?

My friend has a technical job within the ticketing system of a TOC; this stuff is his job. Do you know better than him?

His comment also backs up the failures of my friend's SmartCard at barriers, despite it clearly showing when checked with App etc, and the same card working with season tickets. Anyone got an explanation for that?

Yes we can always buy paper tickets. I used to rely on one for a season ticket, and failure at barriers, and the need to reissue, was a standing joke amongst staff & customers. Sometimes an annual ticket would fail on very first use! We have a nice smartcard barrier system, why is my apparently not-so-knowledgeable friend being proven correct by events, against the other 'experts' here?

 

[Haywain]

My friend has a technical job within the ticketing system of a TOC; this stuff is his job. Do you know better than him?

Apparently, I do. I have worked as a Retail Systems Manager at a TOC with a strong involvement in the introduction of smartcards and smartcard ticketing. This stuff was my job.

We have a nice smartcard barrier system, why is my apparently not-so-knowledgeable friend being proven correct by events, against the other 'experts' here?

I would suggest that your friend should be investigating and resolving any perceived problems rather than telling people not to bother with smartcards.

 

[drueberflug]

He said 'SmartCards don't work with single tickets, only weekly or more'.

This amazed me, as it's counter to what the TOC website says, but he was adamant about it, and it does bear out my friend's barrier problems. He said they can hold up to five tickets, the last one being 'iffy'. But my friend's solitary ticket on her SmartCard failed at the barrier, never mind five of them.

I do not know what ToC your friend works for, LNER for instance officially say that their smartcard only accepts season tickets (and might also bar smartcard sales on fares they set), however, GWR's website offers me smartcard single fares for e.g. Ely to Norwich or Haymarket to Edinburgh Park without any problems, meaning that it is available on selected routes.

 

[Haywain]

LNER for instance officially say that their smartcard only accepts season tickets (and might also bar smartcard sales on fares they set),

The smartcard will accept anything that has been enabled for smartcard fulfilment, but LNER do not enable that for it's own (single) tickets.

 

[Roy1234]

Apparently, I do. I have worked as a Retail Systems Manager at a TOC with a strong involvement in the introduction of smartcards and smartcard ticketing. This stuff was my job.


I would suggest that your friend should be investigating and resolving any perceived problems rather than telling people not to bother with smartcards.

Excellent. Well he has raised the issue with his management, so far without success. This suggests there is a real problem, at least with this particular combo of card, station barrier etc. Shame all this focus on the knowledgeable person telling the truth to his fellow commuters can't be redirected to accepting the problem really exists and so finding a solution.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I do not know what ToC your friend works for, LNER for instance officially say that their smartcard only accepts season tickets (and might also bar smartcard sales on fares they set), however, GWR's website offers me smartcard single fares for e.g. Ely to Norwich or Haymarket to Edinburgh Park without any problems, meaning that it is available on selected routes.

I enable the flows in RCS for LNER and due to the infrastructure on our route Smartcards are only suitable for seasons.

 

[Watershed]

Excellent. Well he has raised the issue with his management, so far without success. This suggests there is a real problem, at least with this particular combo of card, station barrier etc. Shame all this focus on the knowledgeable person telling the truth to his fellow commuters can't be redirected to accepting the problem really exists and so finding a solution.

I am not sure why you are being so hostile to people who are just telling you the facts as they are? We are neither responsible for the problems with smartcards, nor can we fix them. It is not within our area of control as forum posters.

It sounds like there is an issue that affects this particular set of barriers or smartcards, which the relevant TOCs and issuers need to look into. It isn't an industry-wide issue.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Possible stupid question alert:

Could it just be that the barriers are set to reject Railcard discounts, so it's nothing to do with it being a smart card at all?

 

[Wallsendmag]

Were there any oner tickets on the card? Feel free to PM me the card number.

 

[redreni]

I have a GWR Smartcard which I only use for one-day tickets (i.e. day Travelcards) bought online. I would like to get them on my LNER Smartcard from LNER for the Amex discount, but as far as I can make out the LNER website and app only seem to fulfil season tickets to Smartcard, not singles, returns, day Travelcards etc.

So it may depend on the retailer whether they are issued. You should be able to get any one-day ticket that is enabled for Smartcard fulfilment on any Smartcard at any ticket office and at many TVMs. If such tickets are issued on a Smartcard, there shouldn't be any issues at barriers. I've certainly not encountered any. If there are issues, I suppose the options are to take it up with the TOC that issued the Smartcard and/or with the TOC that operates the barrier that is rejecting the ticket. Or switch back to paper or e-tickets.

If it's a cross-London ticket then I would steer clear of anything other than a credit-card-sized paper ticket for the time being.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I have a GWR Smartcard which I only use for one-day tickets (i.e. day Travelcards) bought online. I would like to get them on my LNER Smartcard from LNER for the Amex discount, but as far as I can make out the LNER website and app only seem to fulfil season tickets to Smartcard, not singles, returns, day Travelcards etc.

So it may depend on the retailer whether they are issued. You should be able to get any one-day ticket that is enabled for Smartcard fulfilment on any Smartcard at any ticket office and at many TVMs. If such tickets are issued on a Smartcard, there shouldn't be any issues at barriers. I've certainly not encountered any. If there are issues, I suppose the options are to take it up with the TOC that issued the Smartcard and/or with the TOC that operates the barrier that is rejecting the ticket. Or switch back to paper or e-tickets.

If it's a cross-London ticket then I would steer clear of anything other than a credit-card-sized paper ticket for the time being.

Correct about the LNER offering, Kings Cross will sell it to you though if you know in advance

 

[Jan Mayen]

I've just loaded a single onto my Southern KeyGo card. I'll be using this, then my season ticket, then KeyGo.
I've done this before without any issues.

 

[Roy1234]

I am not sure why you are being so hostile to people who are just telling you the facts as they are? We are neither responsible for the problems with smartcards, nor can we fix them. It is not within our area of control as forum posters.

It sounds like there is an issue that affects this particular set of barriers or smartcards, which the relevant TOCs and issuers need to look into. It isn't an industry-wide issue.

I think you will find the hostility came from yourself and others suggesting my friend didn't know what he was talking about. Now finally you accept the issue could exist, if limited to certain cards & barriers.

Wallsendmag - thank you for one of the first useful posts I've seen:

I enable the flows in RCS for LNER and due to the infrastructure on our route Smartcards are only suitable for seasons.

At last, a knowledgeable person with a post acknowledging the problem and confirming what my friend said, that they only work with Season tickets. Anyone else just wanting to pick flies with me or my obviously correct railway friend, please don't reply any further here; just find another thread. Thank you.

 

[Haywain]

At last, a knowledgeable person with a post acknowledging the problem and confirming what my friend said, that they only work with Season tickets. Anyone else just wanting to pick flies with me or my obviously correct railway friend, please don't reply any further here; just find another thread. Thank you.

@Wallsendmag didn't say what you think he said. He didn't say that smartcards are unsuitable for single tickets. And he most certainly hasn't said anything to prove that your friend is "obviously correct", when they are obviously incorrect.

 

[redreni]

I think you will find the hostility came from yourself and others suggesting my friend didn't know what he was talking about. Now finally you accept the issue could exist, if limited to certain cards & barriers.

Wallsendmag - thank you for one of the first useful posts I've seen:


At last, a knowledgeable person with a post acknowledging the problem and confirming what my friend said, that they only work with Season tickets. Anyone else just wanting to pick flies with me or my obviously correct railway friend, please don't reply any further here; just find another thread. Thank you.

Your friend may well know what he is talking about. You don't.

I really don't think anybody is doubting that sometimes stuff doesn't work. It just doesn't happen to be true, as a generality, to say Smartcards with one-day tickets on them don't work at barriers. Or even that it is hit and miss whether they work.

Ask yourself what a rational person would conclude? There are a number of forum members with first-hand experience of using these tickets over a period of time without problems, and one person who's friend says he has issues. I am minded to think that's probably either a faulty card, or an issue with the particular combination of ticket and barrier being used by that person. Which it's not to say it's anything your friend may have done wrong, necessarily, just that unless anyone else reports problems, it is rational to believe it's unlikely to be a widespread thing.

 

[Watershed]

I think you will find the hostility came from yourself and others suggesting my friend didn't know what he was talking about.

I am not saying he doesn't know what he talks about. But he is fundamentally mistaken on this point. Single and return tickets absolutely can be loaded to smartcards. Not always, not in all circumstances, but it can be done and there are thousands of people each day who travel that way.

Now finally you accept the issue could exist, if limited to certain cards & barriers.

You are mixing up two separate things.

When selling tickets, retailers have to check an industry data feed (RCS) which tells them how they are allowed to fulfil each fare. A fare specifically has to be marked as eligible for smartcard fulfilment, for a retailer to be allowed to offer smartcards as a delivery option. The same goes for sTickets, eTickets and every other method of fulfilment except for paper tickets (which are considered acceptable by default).

Some operators, such as LNER, have chosen only to allow their season tickets to be fulfilled to smartcard - and not their single and return fares. Other operators have enabled smartcard as a fulfilment option more widely. It varies; there is no consistency really.

This is separate from the issue you or your smartcard-wielding friend encountered. If a fare has been enabled for smartcard fulfilment in RCS, and has been sold that way, it should work just fine. Any issue that then arises will most likely be the result of technical problems somewhere along the line - be it with the fulfilment system, the smartcard itself, or the barriers. None of this changes the way the system works, as stated above.

Wallsendmag - thank you for one of the first useful posts I've seen:

At last, a knowledgeable person with a post acknowledging the problem and confirming what my friend said, that they only work with Season tickets.

They are acknowledging the fact that not all single/return fares have been enabled for smartcard. Nobody disputes this. You are mistaken if you read this to mean that no single/return fares can be fulfilled via smartcard.

Anyone else just wanting to pick flies with me or my obviously correct railway friend, please don't reply any further here; just find another thread. Thank you.

Please do not engage in back-seat moderation. If you have a concern about a post being off-topic, please flag it to the moderators using the Report button.

 

[redreni]

Just to add, not only does LNER not enable the single and return fares it prices for Smartcard fulfilment, as an online retailer it also doesn't offer single and return fares or Day Travelcards for Smartcard fulfilment even when the ticket itself is so enabled on RCS. I don't know if that's universally true, but it does seem to be true of all the single or return tickets or day Travelcards that I can get fulfilled to Smartcard by other retailers. None of that has anything to do with whether a ticket that has been issued to Smartcard works the barriers, of course.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Just to add, not only does LNER not enable the single and return fares it prices for Smartcard fulfilment, as an online retailer it also doesn't offer single and return fares or Day Travelcards for Smartcard fulfilment even when the ticket itself is so enabled on RCS. I don't know if that's universally true, but it does seem to be true of all the single or return tickets or day Travelcards that I can get fulfilled to Smartcard by other retailers. None of that has anything to do with whether a ticket that has been issued to Smartcard works the barriers, of course.

Yes that correct the LNER website cannot retail tickets other than seasons to Smartcards

I think you will find the hostility came from yourself and others suggesting my friend didn't know what he was talking about. Now finally you accept the issue could exist, if limited to certain cards & barriers.

Wallsendmag - thank you for one of the first useful posts I've seen:


At last, a knowledgeable person with a post acknowledging the problem and confirming what my friend said, that they only work with Season tickets. Anyone else just wanting to pick flies with me or my obviously correct railway friend, please don't reply any further here; just find another thread. Thank you.

No sorry you've misread my post, your friend isn't correct , singles and returns can be added to Smartcards it's just that LNER doesn't sell them online.