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Can't pay penalty fare online

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PensaxMan

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8 May 2019
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My son picked up a £20 fine last week. I'm not going to waste a lot of time trying to appeal. I'm trying to pay it through 'Iris' on www.penaltyfares.co.uk but the system doesn't recognise the notice number.

I've tried paying by phone but the number given doesn't ring. I've tried phoning the number for website problems, it rings but never gets picked up.

The whole setup seems unprofessional, like some sort of scam outfit.

I could send a cheque but worry that it 'might not arrive' and we'll be in for further payments or a summons.

Any suggestions as to how I should pay this?
 
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Adlington

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The Iris's FAQ says
If you get a message asking for a 6th digit, please add "0" after the letters at the beginning of the number on the notice. Please do not use the Letter Reference from any of our letters.
Could it be the reason for the non-recognition of the notice number?
 

Bletchleyite

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It does look like a properly unprofessional scam website, doesn't it? These days one would expect something with the high level of professionalism of gov.uk.
 

Adlington

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Don't know about scam, but unprofessional it surely is. It refers to payments by Barclaycard....
 

robbeech

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It does look like a properly unprofessional scam website, doesn't it? These days one would expect something with the high level of professionalism of gov.uk.

I think I’d make that statement slightly differently.

I’d LIKE TO SEE something with the high level of professionalism.

I certainly don’t expect it unfortunately.
 

Bletchleyite

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For the record: Iris is not run by gov.uk, but by a nebulous entity "Revenue Protection Support Services".

I know - the point is that gov.uk has set the standard for official services, and there is really no excuse to be worse than it.

Crikey, I could develop something nicer than that for them in an evening or two.
 

PensaxMan

Member
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8 May 2019
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Well I've tried both the payment and the website problem phone numbers again. Both just ring interminably. There's no chat line, no email address. They seem almost impossible to contact in this electronic age.

If you're going to issue fines, why not make them easy to pay?
 

ForTheLoveOf

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My son picked up a £20 fine last week.
I presume, from your title, you mean a Penalty Fare. A Penalty Fare is not just another word for a fine, it is something quite different. It's a civil charge that, in certain circumstances, a train company is permitted to make. A fine would only result after being prosecuted and convicted in Court, and this is much less serious (at this point) than a fine.

I'm not going to waste a lot of time trying to appeal
It's far from a waste of time - many appeals are successful and we may be able to provide advice for a successful appeal here too, depending on the circumstances. It's not just about the money, either - if you have previously been issued with a Penalty Fare then this is held on record; if you ever enter into a dispute again with a train company then they may see this and treat it more seriously than they otherwise would have done (e.g. jumping straight to prosecution). It's certainly worth considering, and I'd be grateful if you could provide the details of the circumstances (train company, what happened, which stations and so on).

The whole setup seems unprofessional, like some sort of scam outfit.
Numerous operators operate Penalty Fares schemes in an unprofessional, non-Regulations-compliant and potentially unlawful manner. It's no surprise, then, that the payment portals are no better.

I could send a cheque but worry that it 'might not arrive'
If you sent a cheque through the appropriate means (e.g. Signed For post) there could be no suggestion it hadn't arrived in time.

we'll be in for further payments or a summons.
Additional amounts, such as "administration fees", sometimes demanded on top of a normal Penalty Fare are not enforceable in any way; there is no statutory or contractual basis for them. Penalty Fares can indeed be cancelled for non-payment, resulting in potentially more serious outcomes, but it is possible to appeal a Penalty Fare without paying it in the first instance. Appeals are generally handled fairly quickly nowadays, so if an appeal is considered and upheld within 21 days of the issuance of the Penalty Fare, it might never be necessary to pay the Penalty Fare at all.

Also of important note is the fact that, if you submit an appeal against a Penalty Fare and the appeal is responded to by the appeals body, or the 21 days which they have to do so pass without a response, and the Penalty Fare has not been cancelled or withdrawn in the intervening period, the train company is statute barred from prosecuting any relevant offence in relation to the incident. This is a very valuable protection which itself makes it worthwhile to appeal the Penalty Fare if you are in any doubt as to its validity.

I have seen that you mentioned that the Penalty Fare was issued by West Midlands Trains. Their Penalty Fares scheme is not, in my experience, compliant with the Regulations, on a number of grounds including the lack of signage at all, or compliant signage, at a number of stations. Accordingly, Penalty Fares issued by them may well be successfully appealed against.
 

PensaxMan

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Persisting with the phone numbers paid off eventually. A very pleasant woman answered and took my payment. But there's no automated answering system if nobody answers.

Altogether a bad experience from the point of view of customer service.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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Persisting with the phone numbers paid off eventually. A very pleasant woman answered and took my payment. But there's no automated answering system if nobody answers.

Altogether a bad experience from the point of view of customer service.
Paying does not preclude an appeal.
 

PensaxMan

Member
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8 May 2019
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I presume, from your title, you mean a Penalty Fare. A Penalty Fare is not just another word for a fine, it is something quite different.

Thanks for all that, will bear it in mind if it happens again. Which it won't hopefully.

Don't think I'll appeal this one. There are only so many unfair penalties, jobsworths, dodgy parking tickets etc. one has the energy to deal with in any space of time. I'll keep my powder dry for something worse!
 

jumble

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1 Jul 2011
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1,278
The whole setup seems unprofessional, like some sort of scam outfit.
I agree
What on earth does this mean from the terms and conditions?

Permission is hereby granted to electronically copy and store (but not on any server or other storage device connected to a network) and print individual pages of the Content on paper (but not photocopy them) from the Site only for the purpose of your private and personal non-commercial use.

Why should it make any difference if one prints 2 copies or prints one and photocopies it?
Who would know or care ?

This is like the spam marketing emails that some idiots send out which say in their disclaimer that I am not allowed to disclose the contents to anyone else which is preposterous
 
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