Caught using child ticket by GWR

[tensh0]

Hello everyone, last month I was caught using a child ticket at Bristol temple meads for a ticket to Paddington and would like some advice. I am above 18 therefore was fare evading and when I was caught I was put under caution and did some sort of interview where I was completely honest. I was forced to show my trainline history and was told I would be contacted via letter and potentially go to court. What I am worried about is I have used child tickets for several years now, probably 2-3000£ worth of money I 'saved' by not paying the full fares. I have heard from other users of the forum that GWR are usually quite happy to settle out of court but I dont know many cases with extensive repeats of fare evading so I would like to know the likelihood of getting a criminal record. I also have some concerns as I tend to not be in the UK for long amounts of time. For example in april I wont be in the UK for a couple weeks, should I contact GWR before to let them know I won't be able to recieve the letter? I am also moving out of my current address in May. Do I contact GWR to switch where the letter is sent if I dont recieve it by then? Thank you for any advice as I have been quite anxious about this situation for the last month, even though I completely deserve it.

 

[Knoodlepot]

You can buy child tickets up to the day before your 16th. So at most it's two years.
If they offer an out of court settlement they will ask for a standard day single for each journey. If you bought a child return between the ages of 16-18 they will be two standard singles.

You can make a spread sheet and look how much you think you owe.
Others on the forum are pro's and will able to help with your questions. It is late'ish so maybe tomorrow unless we have some late owls.

What I can say is that a few train companies have accepted out of court settlements for £20k-£30k. As long as you are sincere.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello everyone, last month I was caught using a child ticket at Bristol temple meads for a ticket to Paddington and would like some advice. I am above 18 therefore was fare evading and when I was caught I was put under caution and did some sort of interview where I was completely honest. I was forced to show my trainline history and was told I would be contacted via letter and potentially go to court. What I am worried about is I have used child tickets for several years now, probably 2-3000£ worth of money I 'saved' by not paying the full fares. I have heard from other users of the forum that GWR are usually quite happy to settle out of court but I dont know many cases with extensive repeats of fare evading so I would like to know the likelihood of getting a criminal record. I also have some concerns as I tend to not be in the UK for long amounts of time. For example in april I wont be in the UK for a couple weeks, should I contact GWR before to let them know I won't be able to recieve the letter? I am also moving out of my current address in May. Do I contact GWR to switch where the letter is sent if I dont recieve it by then? Thank you for any advice as I have been quite anxious about this situation for the last month, even though I completely deserve it.

The most vital thing is that you get their communication and co operate if you want to avoid prosecution.

If you move house then set up a Royal Mail redirection. Advise GWR of your change of postal address and give them your e mail.

If you are out if the country then get a trusted person to check your post. Or consider cancelling your plans to be out of the country.

This may be inconvenient but you have been knowingly stealing from them for a prolonged period of time. Convenience is something you probably now have to miss out on once you get caught.

Or of course you could consider appointing a solicitor to deal with it if that might be a way round some of your practical difficulties, but there costs will then need to be factored in. Maybe £500+.

But to resolve this out of court will cost you several £k by the sound of it.

 

[dciuk]

Hello everyone, last month I was caught using a child ticket at Bristol temple meads for a ticket to Paddington and would like some advice. I am above 18 therefore was fare evading and when I was caught I was put under caution and did some sort of interview where I was completely honest. I was forced to show my trainline history and was told I would be contacted via letter and potentially go to court. What I am worried about is I have used child tickets for several years now, probably 2-3000£ worth of money I 'saved' by not paying the full fares. I have heard from other users of the forum that GWR are usually quite happy to settle out of court but I dont know many cases with extensive repeats of fare evading so I would like to know the likelihood of getting a criminal record. I also have some concerns as I tend to not be in the UK for long amounts of time. For example in april I wont be in the UK for a couple weeks, should I contact GWR before to let them know I won't be able to recieve the letter? I am also moving out of my current address in May. Do I contact GWR to switch where the letter is sent if I dont recieve it by then? Thank you for any advice as I have been quite anxious about this situation for the last month, even though I completely deserve it.

Given the high value of money you have "saved" by purchasing child fares, any settlement is likely to include all those journeys charged at anytime single rate which I guess could run into a 5 figure sum. I suspect an out of court settlement is not going to be cheap and as adult fares are payable from age 16, it is unclear if you have included times you might have purchased child fares while you were 16 or 17 in your calculation. Probably best to wait until you receive a letter from GWR are you do not know what fares they are going to identify in calculating any possible settlement. Hopefully you will hear before you move but if not it would be best to set up forwarding with Royal Mail and perhaps at that stage advise GWR of your change of address, although best see what other forum members think on that as in the unlikely event that GWR have "lost the paperwork" you probably do not want to be reminding them.

Just to get an idea of the scale of out of court settlement that you might be offered, if for example you had purchased 80 x Bristol to Paddington Super Off Peak return fares this would total £2984, saving £2984 on the Adult price which falls within the estimate you provided. If GWR were to ask for all of these at the Anytime Day Single price, this would add up to £21,216 (160 journeys at £132.60) plus whatever admin fee they decide to charge. Depending on the journeys you made and how accurate your estimate is, it might well not be as high as this, but as another poster suggested, it would be a good idea for you to audit your trainline account and list the journeys you made and then check what the anytime single price is for each of these journeys (remembering to double the anytime single price for return tickets) and that will give you an idea of what you might be offered.

 

[John R]

Just to get an idea of the scale of out of court settlement that you might be offered, if for example you had purchased 80 x Bristol to Paddington Super Off Peak return fares this would total £2984, saving £2984 on the Adult price which falls within the estimate you provided. If GWR were to ask for all of these at the Anytime Day Single price, this would add up to £21,216 (160 journeys at £132.60) plus whatever admin fee they decide to charge. Depending on the journeys you made and how accurate your estimate is, it might well not be as high as this, but as another poster suggested, it would be a good idea for you to audit your trainline account and list the journeys you made and then check what the anytime single price is for each of these journeys (remembering to double the anytime single price for return tickets) and that will give you an idea of what you might be offered.

If the scale of the evasion is such that this sort of money will be asked then I would definitely advise getting legal advice from one of the specialist firms we sometimes see mentioned here.

There may well be a situation whereby it would be preferable to be prosecuted for the single offence, and the most GWR could claim in other fares avoided would be the same again as the OP post (ie doubling the ticket cost), as opposed to charging an Anytime Single for each journey. But a solicitor would probably be needed to argue this case, and will anyway advise if this option is appropriate having attempted to negotiate a more realistic settlement offer.

You can buy child tickets up to the day before your 16th. So at most it's two years.

The OP says they are "above 18", not that they are 18. So could easily be a couple of years older than 18.

 

[Knoodlepot]

If the scale of the evasion is such that this sort of money will be asked then I would definitely advise getting legal advice from one of the specialist firms we sometimes see mentioned here.

There may well be a situation whereby it would be preferable to be prosecuted for the single offence, and the most GWR could claim in other fares avoided would be the same again as the OP post (ie doubling the ticket cost), as opposed to charging an Anytime Single for each journey. But a solicitor would probably be needed to argue this case, and will anyway advise if this option is appropriate having attempted to negotiate a more realistic settlement offer.


The OP says they are "above 18", not that they are 18. So could easily be a couple of years older than 18.

Yes they do say that. Apologies for mi-reading.

 

[WesternLancer]

If the scale of the evasion is such that this sort of money will be asked then I would definitely advise getting legal advice from one of the specialist firms we sometimes see mentioned here.

There may well be a situation whereby it would be preferable to be prosecuted for the single offence, and the most GWR could claim in other fares avoided would be the same again as the OP post (ie doubling the ticket cost), as opposed to charging an Anytime Single for each journey. But a solicitor would probably be needed to argue this case, and will anyway advise if this option is appropriate having attempted to negotiate a more realistic settlement offer.


The OP says they are "above 18", not that they are 18. So could easily be a couple of years older than 18.

This is sound advice imho and the op should give serious consideration to it.

The op has not indicated how important it is to them to avoid a criminal record.

I recommend the op also reads GWRs revenue protection policy in pdf format on their website.

 

[tensh0]

Given the high value of money you have "saved" by purchasing child fares, any settlement is likely to include all those journeys charged at anytime single rate which I guess could run into a 5 figure sum. I suspect an out of court settlement is not going to be cheap and as adult fares are payable from age 16, it is unclear if you have included times you might have purchased child fares while you were 16 or 17 in your calculation. Probably best to wait until you receive a letter from GWR are you do not know what fares they are going to identify in calculating any possible settlement. Hopefully you will hear before you move but if not it would be best to set up forwarding with Royal Mail and perhaps at that stage advise GWR of your change of address, although best see what other forum members think on that as in the unlikely event that GWR have "lost the paperwork" you probably do not want to be reminding them.

Just to get an idea of the scale of out of court settlement that you might be offered, if for example you had purchased 80 x Bristol to Paddington Super Off Peak return fares this would total £2984, saving £2984 on the Adult price which falls within the estimate you provided. If GWR were to ask for all of these at the Anytime Day Single price, this would add up to £21,216 (160 journeys at £132.60) plus whatever admin fee they decide to charge. Depending on the journeys you made and how accurate your estimate is, it might well not be as high as this, but as another poster suggested, it would be a good idea for you to audit your trainline account and list the journeys you made and then check what the anytime single price is for each of these journeys (remembering to double the anytime single price for return tickets) and that will give you an idea of what you might be offered.

Yeah I'm starting to realize how much I screwed my life up because I've purchased so many tickets to the point Trainline can't show my entire history of fare evasion because there is just so much. I also didn't realize I have to pay the anytime fee so yeah I'm guessing between 15-20k£ worth of fees.

This is sound advice imho and the op should give serious consideration to it.

The op has not indicated how important it is to them to avoid a criminal record.

I recommend the op also reads GWRs revenue protection policy in pdf format on their website.

I've already gotten a lawyer however not from a specialist firm and have been advised to simply remain calm and do nothing until I recieve a letter. It is extremely important to not recieve a criminal record as I'm trying to become an accountant (ironic I know). Most of my journey's are actually from different train companies, just GWR is the one who caught me, does this affect anything?

Thanks everyone for the advice so far

 

[WesternLancer]

Yeah I'm starting to realize how much I screwed my life up because I've purchased so many tickets to the point Trainline can't show my entire history of fare evasion because there is just so much. I also didn't realize I have to pay the anytime fee so yeah I'm guessing between 15-20k£ worth of fees.


I've already gotten a lawyer however not from a specialist firm and have been advised to simply remain calm and do nothing until I recieve a letter. It is extremely important to not recieve a criminal record as I'm trying to become an accountant (ironic I know). Most of my journey's are actually from different train companies, just GWR is the one who caught me, does this affect anything?

Thanks everyone for the advice so far

Thanks. I’ve no idea if a general solicitor can do a good job on this or not, but people here who report back using the rail fare evasion specialists that get mentioned seem to always speak favourably. When people report back on fees the sums mentioned don’t seem inordinately different to what I’d expect a general solicitor to charge but I’ve never been in your situation myself.

Given the scale you are talking about I would seriously consider at least getting a quote from a specialist solicitor that knows about fare evasion and has experience of representing clients to rail companies in your position.

The three firms that get mentioned here from time to time are:

Manak solicitors
Penman Sedgwick
Makwana solicitors

I have no connection with any nor have used them myself.

You will also get help from this forum

Given your career aspirations and the earning potential long term from that I would suggest an out of court settlement to prevent prosecution is worth seeking even with legal help costs too. But it is possible that prosecution might come cheaper, albeit with a criminal record.

I hope thoughts people are posting here are helpful as I suspect this has come as a very hefty wake up call.

You won’t thank me for pointing out that modest sums spent on railcards could probably have legally saved much of what you have evaded…

GWR will act for all companies in respect of your evasion. That’s lucky because if you co operate they are one of the easier to deal with.

 

[furlong]

Expect to be invited to pay the difference between what you actually paid and what you would have paid if you had obeyed the law together with some administration costs. Charging you twice over would be wrong - making profit from a crime - and GWR is not known to engage in such malpractice. If they ask for too much, you or your solicitor can attempt to argue that had you not committed the crimes you'd have bought identical tickets but the adult versions, so the total compensation due should be approximately the same as what you already paid as child fares are usually half the adult fares.

But you should seriously question whether accountancy is a sensible career choice for someone who has done something like this.

 

[John R]

Added to @furlong ‘s final comment, which I totally agree with, if trying means that you are already a member of a profession then you need to urgently study the rules of membership. There will almost certainly be obligations on you to self report any criminal behaviour, either on investigation, prosecution or conviction. And given the extent of your evasion, I doubt it would be dismissed as a lapse of judgment out of character.

 

[Haywain]

And further to the comments immediately above, you are already under investigation for criminal offences.

 

[RPI]

You will normally be given a credit for any fares already paid, so it will be the Anytime Single for for each journey, minus what you'd paid for that journey.

 

[WesternLancer]

Yeah I'm starting to realize how much I screwed my life up because I've purchased so many tickets to the point Trainline can't show my entire history of fare evasion because there is just so much. I also didn't realize I have to pay the anytime fee so yeah I'm guessing between 15-20k£ worth of fees.


I've already gotten a lawyer however not from a specialist firm and have been advised to simply remain calm and do nothing until I recieve a letter. It is extremely important to not recieve a criminal record as I'm trying to become an accountant (ironic I know). Most of my journey's are actually from different train companies, just GWR is the one who caught me, does this affect anything?

Thanks everyone for the advice so far

Reflecting further on your case I think it will be possible for you to obtain an out of court settlement, despite the severity of your actions in terms of the length of time you have been doing this.

People here have explained how they will calculate the sum they will state that you owe - which is the basis for any settlement offer from their side (so you can estimate that in financial terms). I even think you could possibly do this without paying for a solicitor.

However, given the sum is substantial, and the risks to you career wise are not good, then paying for the expertise of a solicitor is probably worthwhile as they will seek to get the best outcome for you they can and will have relevant experience in doing so (especially the railway ticketing offences expertise solicitors anyway).

As you will have realised by now you will need to have access to the sort of payment you will need to make if an Out of Court settlement is offered, as you will need to be able to pay that promptly, and almost certainly in full. So depending on your personal savings you may want to talk to family or trusted friends about the situation in the even of you needed to borrow money to pay what will be required.

 

[railmistakes25]

Hello everyone, last month I was caught using a child ticket at Bristol temple meads for a ticket to Paddington and would like some advice. I am above 18 therefore was fare evading and when I was caught I was put under caution and did some sort of interview where I was completely honest. I was forced to show my trainline history and was told I would be contacted via letter and potentially go to court. What I am worried about is I have used child tickets for several years now, probably 2-3000£ worth of money I 'saved' by not paying the full fares. I have heard from other users of the forum that GWR are usually quite happy to settle out of court but I dont know many cases with extensive repeats of fare evading so I would like to know the likelihood of getting a criminal record. I also have some concerns as I tend to not be in the UK for long amounts of time. For example in april I wont be in the UK for a couple weeks, should I contact GWR before to let them know I won't be able to recieve the letter? I am also moving out of my current address in May. Do I contact GWR to switch where the letter is sent if I dont recieve it by then? Thank you for any advice as I have been quite anxious about this situation for the last month, even though I completely deserve it.

Hi, I’m sorry to hear about your situation. I’m in a similar situation and extremely scared. Was wondering if you could let me know the conclusion of yours? Did you manage to settle out of court ? And if so, for how much?
Would be really grateful for a response

 

[SteveM70]

Hi, I’m sorry to hear about your situation. I’m in a similar situation and extremely scared. Was wondering if you could let me know the conclusion of yours? Did you manage to settle out of court ? And if so, for how much?
Would be really grateful for a response

If you want advice, please start a thread of your own - however similar your case may look to another, it won't be identical

 

[badtraveller]

I see a few people commenting that the OP would probably pay the fare difference as opposed to the full fare as mentioned in a few other threads. Any thought behind that or is that just a GWR trend?

 

[Haywain]

I see a few people commenting that the OP would probably pay the fare difference as opposed to the full fare as mentioned in a few other threads. Any thought behind that or is that just a GWR trend?

We don't know what happened in this thread, if it has been resolved at all. In your case you are dealing with a different train company in different circumstances, so it would be wise to consider that you will be held liable for the full fares. At least that way you will be pleasantly surprised if that is not the case. If you wish to further discuss this it would be better to do so on your own thread.

 

[badtraveller]

Oh for sure, I know. I’ve prepped for it, was just curious on the comments here.