Cl. 43 (HST) Numbering.

[03_179]

Having been out of spotting for a number of years I note that there are 433xx and 43axx.

Where can I get a list of all the Cl. 43s from old numbers and the newer numbers?

Thanks in advance as always.

 

[scotraildriver]

Just knock 200 off the 433xx and you get its original number. ie 43300 was 43100 etc

 

[03_179]

Just knock 200 off the 433xx and you get its original number. ie 43300 was 43100 etc

Thanks

 

[bb21]

434xx were 430xx except 43423 which was 43123. All the 43/4's used to be surrogate DVTs iirc.

 

[03_179]

434xx were 430xx except 43423 which was 43123. All the 43/4's used to be surrogate DVTs iirc.

Thanks

 

[gage75]

Ian Allen bookshops hold a number of spotting book/guides, some of which are quite in depth, the main ones I've used are from The NREA which iirc usually has the older numbers esp for locos or the ones I use now from Platform 5 which gives a lot of production notes and also gives old numbers of locos the only down side is it's spread over 4 books (EMU's, DMU's Locos and Coaching Stock (p/b) but even so they're pretty cheap, they also do a hardback which covers just Locos and Coaching Stock but costs the same as the other books combined

 

[BestWestern]

The book 'HST, The Second Millennium' is very thorough and details the renumbering of all power cars during the MTU upgrades. A very good read.

 

[johnnyp_360]

I've seen a few old photos from when the 125s came out. We're these originally 25something rather than class 43?

 

[heart-of-wessex]

I've seen a few old photos from when the 125s came out. We're these originally 25something rather than class 43?

253's and 254's, as they were DMU set's. Don't ask if they still technically are or not, or you'll start a fire !

254's were 8 cars for East Coast duties, everything else IIRC was 7 cars...

 

[edwin_m]

The Western sets were numbered 253xxx and the Eastern ones 254xxx. These were set numbers and the same one was applied to both ends, like all modern multiple units and most older EMUs too. However after not very long in service it became clear that it was necessary to swap power cars between sets, so the end numbers were useless and eventually abandoned. I think this happened before the Cross Country sets were delivered.

 

[Techniquest]

Don't ask if they still technically are or not, or you'll start a fire !

Less a fire, more a raging inferno!

As others have already said, the Grand Central power cars were indeed used in the Surrogate DVT programme many moons ago when the 91s were being tested. 432xx were previously 430xx, 433xx were previously 431xx, the re-numbering being deemed required as they were considered so different internally to non-MTU'd power cars. Two exceptions to that being 43053 and 43056, which were previously on the East Coast but were transferred to the Great Western. They were both originally to be renumbered to 43253/43256 respectively but this was not done. To the best of my knowledge, there was no firm plan to re-number HST power cars on the Great Western and isn't now either.

Welcome back to the scene 03_179

 

[455driver]

Platform 5 which gives a lot of production notes and also gives old numbers of locos the only down side is it's spread over 4 books (EMU's, DMU's Locos and Coaching Stock (p/b) but even so they're pretty cheap, they also do a hardback which covers just Locos and Coaching Stock but costs the same as the other books combined

No it doesnt, it includes all 4 books in the one hardback cover, I have got every one since 1983 so should know.

It has locos, coaches, DMUs, Emus and Light rail/ tram systems.

 

[Techniquest]

Platform 5 also includes track machines don't they now? They are indeed very high quality, but jeez hasn't the price gone through the roof?!

NREA, ST Publications and AEB all do most acceptable versions for much less. I believe the ST Publications version is only £13 but includes things like Underground, Northern Ireland, Irish Rail, track machines and more too. NREA's book is pocket sized, with the 2014 version due out in the next couple of weeks if not sooner. Very good value for £9.95 but their previous versions (I've owned most of them from 2004 to 2012, not bought one lately) haven't included things like track machines or Underground. That could well have changed in the 2013 or the forthcoming 2014 version mind. AEB's UK combined I've not bought in years but it was pretty good for £8.95 when I bought it. To be honest I had assumed they'd stopped doing it as I hadn't seen it in the shops for a long time.

If you're going for the books in Ian Allen, I'd recommend trying the Manchester store over the Birmingham one, their stocking seems to be better. And heart-of-wessex will probably remember as much as me how bad the Cardiff store went a few years back, so much so I stopped bothering trying to get owt in there, not even browsed there for years!

 

[455driver]

Platform 5 also includes track machines don't they now? They are indeed very high quality, but jeez hasn't the price gone through the roof?!

Yes it does include all (I think) on track plant as well.

I knew there was something else in there but couldnt be bothered going upstairs to have a look.

 

[gage75]

No it doesnt, it includes all 4 books in the one hardback cover, I have got every one since 1983 so should know.

It has locos, coaches, DMUs, Emus and Light rail/ tram systems.

I've not seen the all in one H/B copy the only one I've seen is the Locomotives and Coaching Stock in H/B

 

[455driver]

I have got the 2012 version in front of me now.

Its called-

BRITISH RAILWAYS
LOCOMOTIVES &
COACHING STOCK

(has a picture of a Pullman liveried 47)

THE ROLLING STOCK OF BRITAIN'S
MAINLINE RAILWAY OPERATORS AND
LIGHT RAIL SYSTEMS IN 2012



It is published by Platform 5 and it includes everything I have stated above, I own the damn book and am looking at a 2012 copy as we speak so should know what I am talking about!

have you actually got the book so you actually know what you are talking about?
Have you looked inside the book to see what is listed on the Contents page?
Have you actually looked inside the book at various sections of it?
Did you see the book advertised, look at the title and assume* what was inside?


* Assumptions are the mother of all f+++ ups!
I nearly bought a paper today but didnt want to repeat what the postman had bought me this morning, well I assume thats what it was. The paper was called the Daily Mail.

 

[GatwickDepress]

Is it wrong that every time I click on a post by you, I like to guess what symbols you've used to mask the naughty word from innocent eyes?

 

[sprinterguy]

The Western sets were numbered 253xxx and the Eastern ones 254xxx. These were set numbers and the same one was applied to both ends, like all modern multiple units and most older EMUs too. However after not very long in service it became clear that it was necessary to swap power cars between sets, so the end numbers were useless and eventually abandoned. I think this happened before the Cross Country sets were delivered.

All of the HST sets, excluding the spare power cars I believe, were delivered with 253/254 set numbers. The set numbers lasted just into the Intercity Executive era, but were discontinued shortly thereafter.

 

[BestWestern]

All of the HST sets, excluding the spare power cars I believe, were delivered with 253/254 set numbers. The set numbers lasted just into the Intercity Executive era, but were discontinued shortly thereafter.

However, the designations still survive for some internal useage; FGW crew diagrams still state 253 as the traction!

 

[03_179]

Less a fire, more a raging inferno!

Welcome back to the scene 03_179

Cheers Techniquest. I have been working in the railways since 1986 so not away as such just from the spotting side since about 2000 (although I have noted my haulage travelling to/from work.

Thanks for all the advice everyone.

 

[gage75]

No it doesnt, it includes all 4 books in the one hardback cover, I have got every one since 1983 so should know.

It has locos, coaches, DMUs, Emus and Light rail/ tram systems.

As shown here they are are available as individual s/b books

 

[455driver]

Is it wrong that every time I click on a post by you, I like to guess what symbols you've used to mask the naughty word from innocent eyes?

What can I say, I like to keep people guessing!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As shown here they are are available as individual s/b books

View attachment 17580

And all 4 are available as a hardback combined volume!
Well they will be soon at any rate.

 

[Techniquest]

Cheers Techniquest. I have been working in the railways since 1986 so not away as such just from the spotting side since about 2000 (although I have noted my haulage travelling to/from work.

Thanks for all the advice everyone.

Ahhh, fair enough

Doubt my previous post about HSTs in this thread was very interesting, but then again who knows? I still remembered a few bits and bobs from my 6.5 or so years of cranking on HSTs on a very regular basis so thought I may as well share the few bits I haven't forgotten

 

[gage75]

I have got the 2012 version in front of me now.

Its called-

BRITISH RAILWAYS
LOCOMOTIVES &
COACHING STOCK

(has a picture of a Pullman liveried 47)

THE ROLLING STOCK OF BRITAIN'S
MAINLINE RAILWAY OPERATORS AND
LIGHT RAIL SYSTEMS IN 2012



It is published by Platform 5 and it includes everything I have stated above, I own the damn book and am looking at a 2012 copy as we speak so should know what I am talking about!

have you actually got the book so you actually know what you are talking about?
Have you looked inside the book to see what is listed on the Contents page?
Have you actually looked inside the book at various sections of it?
Did you see the book advertised, look at the title and assume* what was inside?


* Assumptions are the mother of all f+++ ups!
I nearly bought a paper today but didnt want to repeat what the postman had bought me this morning, well I assume thats what it was. The paper was called the Daily Mail.

As you say assumption is the mother of all f*** ups, having looked in a copy on the Ian Allen stall at the Exhibition at Ally Pally today I realize that I am in error and therefore apologise wholeheartedly and without reservation

 

[heart-of-wessex]

I am in error and therefore apologise wholeheartedly and without reservation

 

[gage75]

More often than not my trains of thought has no reservation tickets available due to the machine not working (it's a complex clockwork and gearing mech)

 

[455driver]

having looked in a copy on the Ian Allen stall at the Exhibition at Ally Pally today I realize that I am in error and therefore apologise wholeheartedly and without reservation????????????

No sweat mate, cuddles all round!

I still think its a good book even for the (just under) £20 price tag.

I dont need to reserve my thoughts because no bugger else wants them!

 

[cjmillsnun]

All of the HST sets, excluding the spare power cars I believe, were delivered with 253/254 set numbers. The set numbers lasted just into the Intercity Executive era, but were discontinued shortly thereafter.

I thought the spare PCs weren't numbered apart from their 43xxx number.

EDIT: maybe I should read the post first

 

[455driver]

I thought the spare PCs weren't numbered apart from their 43xxx number.

EDIT: maybe I should read the post first

I was going to put the same but noticed the excluding in there before hitting the submit reply button!