Class 230 units training/introduction on the Borderlands line: updates

[krus_aragon]

The 230's are grounded again, no more training etc due to a major electrical problem that needs fixing.

Any news on what the "major electrical problem" is?

Sounds like a ground fault to me.

(Time to get my coat...)

 

[DelW]

So that's all the 230s out and all the Island Line 484s out with software issues. Not a good look for VivaRail is it?

It's reported on the 484 discussion that a second unit crossed to the island yesterday, which *might* indicate that their problem has been resolved - assuming that Vivarail would want to carry out any fixes and tests on the mainland.

If so, maybe that has now freed up technicians to deal with the 230s?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So that's all the 230s out and all the Island Line 484s out with software issues. Not a good look for VivaRail is it?

At least the Marston Vale is managing to run a service (I won't say a punctual one as it often isn't) with one unit out of three...

 

[DarloRich]

So that's all the 230s out and all the Island Line 484s out with software issues. Not a good look for VivaRail is it?

No! we have at least one running on the Marston Vale. Also i saw pictures of the next island line unit going across on the ferry from the mainland on social media so perhaps things are getting better!

 

[43096]

No! we have at least one running on the Marston Vale. Also i saw pictures of the next island line unit going across on the ferry from the mainland on social media so perhaps things are getting better!

The Island Line units have been back out testing from Eastleigh in recent days.

As always with anything Vivarail there’s a good deal of hysterical over-reaction attached.

 

[ac6000cw]

From what I have read 230003-005 are diesel electric transmissions with gensets providing controlled power to the traction motors.

230006-010 have diesel powered alternators pumping their output into battery packs located in the centre car. The traction kit draws battery power to power the traction motors, and retardation using the traction motors puts power back into the battery packs. Theoretically, provided the batteries have a good charge then the diesel engines theoretically do not need to run all of the time, but even when they do run I guess they would run at a constant RPM, making fuel usage easier to plan for.

That's correct - the Chief Engineer of Vivarail gave a talk to RCTS members last week and described the traction system of the TfW units. They are diesel-battery hybrids.

It's reported on the 484 discussion that a second unit crossed to the island yesterday, which *might* indicate that their problem has been resolved - assuming that Vivarail would want to carry out any fixes and tests on the mainland.

Apparently the recent/current problem with the Island Line cl. 484 3rd-rail variant is related to the traction system not dealing with conductor rail 'gapping' very well (the 230s & 484s are completely re-tractioned with modern AC-drives and the traction equipment supplier - Strukton Rail in the Netherlands - seem to be having some issues dealing with UK 3rd rail...they're not the first supplier to have problems like that - it'll get sorted out).

As always with anything Vivarail there’s a good deal of hysterical over-reaction attached.

Agreed...

 

[DarloRich]

The Island Line units have been back out testing from Eastleigh in recent days.

As always with anything Vivarail there’s a good deal of hysterical over-reaction attached.

As a (previously) regular user of these trains i am well aware of their issues! There is an awful lot of wibble mind.

PS - it is difficult to remain objective after 100 too many Shanks Pony Rail Replacement services

 

[wobman]

Are vivarail using the MAN engine in 230110 ? The present ford ranger diesel power units have had problems, a member of another group said they want to trial the MAN engine as a future alternative.

 

[ac6000cw]

Are vivarail using the MAN engine in 230110 ? The present ford ranger diesel power units have had problems, a member of another group said they want to trial the MAN engine as a future alternative.

Based on what I heard last week in an RCTS meeting - see my post 685 above - I think they are still using the Ford engine (as there was no mention of using anything else).

Their Chief Engineer said the Ford engine itself had been fine, it was the stuff around it and the design of the genset units that has been the cause of most of the reliability problems e.g. the radiators getting blocked with pollen too easily (now replaced with a different design), the hot parts not being sufficiently insulated or separated enough from other parts etc. I think they're now on version 3 of the genset unit design (first version was designed by an outside supplier, the latter two in-house).

 

[wobman]

Based on what I heard last week in an RCTS meeting - see my post 685 above - I think they are still using the Ford engine (as there was no mention of using anything else).

Their Chief Engineer said the Ford engine itself had been fine, it was the stuff around it and the design of the genset units that has been the cause of most of the reliability problems e.g. the radiators getting blocked with pollen too easily (now replaced with a different design), the hot parts not being sufficiently insulated or separated enough from other parts etc. I think they're now on version 3 of the genset unit design (first version was designed by an outside supplier, the latter two in-house).

Was there any discussion regarding the units getting bigger diesel fuel tanks or improvements to the gensets fuel consumption ?
The 230's are needing refueling more regularly than the initial planned 3 day cycle

 

[ac6000cw]

Was there any discussion regarding the units getting bigger diesel fuel tanks or improvements to the gensets fuel consumption ?

Not that I remember.

Given that (if I remember correctly) there are four genset units plus fuel tanks under the middle (trailer) car there might not be much room to fit larger tanks anyway. The outer (motor) cars carry the batteries and traction equipment.

 

[superkev]

Are vivarail using the MAN engine in 230110 ? The present ford ranger diesel power units have had problems, a member of another group said they want to trial the MAN engine as a future alternative.

There was an article a while back in one of the Magazines (sorry cant remember which) saying Vivarail were moving to Caterpillar engines and even included a picture of one of the engine/gen rafts.
Perhaps things have moved on.
K

 

[Sean Emmett]

There's a 230 out on test today, passed it a couple of times whilst timing 150s.

Looks like 230 008, but restricted view from 'spoons at Shotton.

 

[Bob Price]

Looking at the schedules on Railcam 008 is listed. No sign of 010 back on the Stourbridge Shuttles though. Just hope whatever the problem was it's now fixed.

 

[DavidGrain]

Looking at the schedules on Railcam 008 is listed. No sign of 010 back on the Stourbridge Shuttles though. Just hope whatever the problem was it's now fixed.

You will not see 230010 out this week. Trains between Moreton in Marsh and Worcester running on rubber tyres this week because of engineering work on the line.

 

[wobman]

There was an article a while back in one of the Magazines (sorry cant remember which) saying Vivarail were moving to Caterpillar engines and even included a picture of one of the engine/gen rafts.
Perhaps things have moved on.
K

I do hope so as the present gen sets have numerous ongoing issues, some of them really smoke once on the move.
It's worrying as they are new gen sets.

 

[wobman]

Looking at the schedules on Railcam 008 is listed. No sign of 010 back on the Stourbridge Shuttles though. Just hope whatever the problem was it's now fixed.

They should be a regular sight on the borderlands line from now on, that's when they are working.
There's lots of ongoing driver training on the 230's ready for the September or December start of them in service.
TFW have taken one quiet service out of the timetable to enable driver training runs to do this.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Had a short trip out today to Penyffordd to possibly capture a 230 on the Birkenhead North-Wrexham ECS run (5T04), but it didn't show up (cancelled I later saw on RTT).
But here is an oddity on the route today - 5Q31.
Realtime Trains - 5Q31 0750 Birkenhead North E.M.U.D to Chester D.M.U.D.
It seemingly went missing for the best part of 2 hours between Dee Marsh Jn and Wrexham, and has now reached Chester.
Does anybody know the background to this?
The one passenger train left on the line was running late, and there's a replacement bus in the mix somewhere.

There's also a busy construction site at Penyffordd. Is this for the siding extension project at the Padeswood cement works?

 

[Bob Price]

There was one reached Crewe today on 5Q32. Seen a webcam shot on the Railcam Facebook group

 

[PHILIPE]

There was one reached Crewe today on 5Q32. Seen a webcam shot on the Railcam Facebook group

Two return runs between Chester and Crewe today but as ZZ and not TOC sponsorship

 

[Bob Price]

Odd working. Unless they are looking at using one on ten shuttles after all having decided the few minutes it adds is worth being able to free up a pair of 153's. Unlikely.

I also saw that 010 has been accepted, a news bit in RAIL. Has it been delivered yet? Haven't seen it out this week on the Cotswolds runs.

 

[wobman]

It could be a test run for timings etc for when the 230's would need to go onto the wheel lathe at Crewe in the future.
It's the nearest lathe to Wrexham and Chester & running on the borderlands line, the units will be getting wheel flats from time to time.
Using them on Chester - Crewe shuttles was discounted a long time ago, far too much traincrew training involved and the recovery if they failed was near on impossible unless it's another 230.

 

[craigybagel]

Odd working. Unless they are looking at using one on ten shuttles after all having decided the few minutes it adds is worth being able to free up a pair of 153's. Unlikely.

Highly unlikely. Even aside from the units unsuitability on many counts for the shuttle, there's also a big training issue. Getting enough staff from the one drivers depot that works the Bidston line to get them into service has been difficult enough. There are 5 drivers depots (and 6 guards depots!) that work the shuttle during the day. Neither getting all of those drivers changed or untangling the diagrams so that the numbers are reduced are especially easy options.

 

[Bob Price]

I thought that was unlikely. Wonder why it was doing the run. There are paths in for tomorrow as well.

 

[DavidGrain]

Unfortunately we do not know who is operating the trains. They are not listed as TfW. If it were to be something for Vivarail, I would expect them to be SLC Operations. If Vivarail had done a modification which required to be tested on the road, I would have expected TfW driving instructors to be asked to drive.

 

[sd0733]

The Crewe runs are for clearance runs in order to get them to Crewe Electric Depots wheel lathe once they are in service. Nothing very exciting!

 

[Bob Price]

Ah that makes sense. They didn't happen today so guess all was fine. In related D train news a 484 made it to Ryde. It looks like overall the D train projects are starting to come together.

 

[DavidGrain]

I took this still from RailCam for those that did not see it live
View attachment 97972

 

[317 forever]

They should be a regular sight on the borderlands line from now on, that's when they are working.
There's lots of ongoing driver training on the 230's ready for the September or December start of them in service.
TFW have taken one quiet service out of the timetable to enable driver training runs to do this.

I have written off any expectation of riding one in September now.

 

[tnxrail]

https://mobile.twitter.com/RAIL/status/1403718481900617730

From Rail Live running trains at Long Marston Next Week I think.