Compensation for declassified first class

[freddie1729]

Just having a look at the NRCOT regarding compensation for lack of first class and was surprised to find the following:

If you have a first class Ticket and the train service you use is shown as offering first class accommodation at www.nationalrail.co.uk, but when you travel first class accommodation is not provided or is otherwise fully occupied, you may claim a refund. The minimum refund to which you will be entitled will be the difference between the price of the first class Ticket purchased and the cheapest valid standard class walk-up fare available on the service you used. You must contact the Train Company you travelled with to notify them of your claim within 28 days of the date that you travelled.

Surely in most cases, when people are travelling on an Advance first, the minimum refund would be £0? Doesn't seem very fair.

 

[Watershed]

It's a part of the NRCoT that hasn't really been revised to take into account the rise of Advance tickets and the coming into force of consumer rights legislation.

Clearly a TOC wouldn't have a leg to stand on if it refused to pay downgrade reimbursement for on the basis that a standard class walk-up ticket was the same price or more; consumer and contract law would dictate that a certain measure of damages, i.e. a partial refund, would be payable.

In the case of Advance tickets this would usually be calculated by working out the equivalent standard class Advance tier, which is usually fairly easy as the same tier letters tend to be used for both classes (e.g. V2A vs V1A for Avanti Advances). If there isn't a comparable lettering/numbering system for both classes, then applying a percentage of something like 30-50% would seem reasonable in most cases.

 

[The exile]

You would have thought that with modern technology, systems should know exactly what the cheapest available standard class advance fare was at the time of booking?

 

[Haywain]

Just having a look at the NRCOT regarding compensation for lack of first class and was surprised to find the following:



Surely in most cases, when people are travelling on an Advance first, the minimum refund would be £0? Doesn't seem very fair.

In those circumstances the TOC will usually refund the difference to the equivalent standard class Advance tickets.

 

[OscarH]

You would have thought that with modern technology, systems should know exactly what the cheapest available standard class advance fare was at the time of booking?

You might expect that, however I strongly suspect this would be put in the "untractible, never happening pile" of our state in the art reservation system

 

[Cowley]

Thread reopened for @MTN to update

 

[MTN]

Thanks @Cowley.

For information about a refund for declassification of first class using advance tickets.

Travelled from Waterloo to Moreton the other day. The 18.05 from Waterloo was full and standing, so the guard declassified first class.

He also announced, helpfully, that he had emailed control about this and encouraged those with first class tickets to get a refund.

I was travelling with Mrs. N, with advanced split tickets and 2 together Railcard, at a cost of £52.30. I applied for refund, and will receive £20.60. (40% refund).

Whether this is a standard 40% refund, or the difference between the standard and first advance is difficult to say, but a good result, I thought ( as we had seats in first anyway).

 

[Wallsendmag]

You might expect that, however I strongly suspect this would be put in the "untractible, never happening pile" of our state in the art reservation system

I'm pretty sure it's possible, actually I'll qualify that I'm pretty sure it was possible with NRS

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks @Cowley.

For information about a refund for declassification of first class using advance tickets.

Travelled from Waterloo to Moreton the other day. The 18.05 from Waterloo was full and standing, so the guard declassified first class.

He also announced, helpfully, that he had emailed control about this and encouraged those with first class tickets to get a refund.

I was travelling with Mrs. N, with advanced split tickets and 2 together Railcard, at a cost of £52.30. I applied for refund, and will receive £20.60. (40% refund).

Whether this is a standard 40% refund, or the difference between the standard and first advance is difficult to say, but a good result, I thought ( as we had seats in first anyway).

If you tell us exactly which split tickets you held and how much each cost we can work it out, if you're interested!

 

[MTN]

Waterloo to Winchester (£16.45 each), Winchester to moreton (£9.70 each). 1st Advances with two together Railcard. Total £52.30.

 

[Haywain]

Waterloo to Winchester (£16.45 each), Winchester to moreton (£9.70 each). 1st Advances with two together Railcard. Total £52.30.

Based on that the refund appears to be an appropriate amount.

 

[AlterEgo]

Waterloo to Winchester (£16.45 each)

F5A code Advance on this list: https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=WAT&dest=WIN&rlc=2TR&period=20250102

Equivalent Standard is the S5A which is £9.95

Difference: £6.50

Winchester to moreton (£9.70 each)

F6A code Advance on this list: https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=WIN&dest=MTN&rlc=2TR&period=20250102

Equivalent Standard is the S6A which is £5.90

Difference: £3.80

Total difference for one passenger: £10.30
Double that: £20.60, what you received.

 

[MTN]

Thanks. Assumed it was right, but wasn't sure how calculated. Was pleased to get, and so quickly. Came through the day after claiming.

Also, good to hear the guard letting everyone know that they could claim.