Complex journey, Heathrow to Brighton, where to tap out?

[Howardh]

Got a day out looming, so was planning on this;
Manchester > Heathrow mid-morning flight.
Heathrow to West Brompton vis Earls Court (tube)
West Brompton to Clapham, East Croyden or Gatwick
There to Brighton using a pre-booked day return Victoria/Brighton
Then finishing with Brighton/Victoria, tune to Euston then > Manchester.

So basically; if I tap in with contactless at Heathrow, where would I tap out - do I have to leave the station @ Clapham Common or West Brompton? Or can you tap out within the station ie. changing platforms?
Also, I would be allowed to join the Victoria/Brighton train at Clapham or East Croydon?

Of course I could get the tube to Victoria from Heathrow (changing at Hammersmith) and there are no contactless issues there, just tap out leaving the underground station @ Victoria.

 

[Watershed]

Got a day out looming, so was planning on this;
Manchester > Heathrow mid-morning flight.
Heathrow to West Brompton vis Earls Court (tube)
West Brompton to Clapham, East Croyden or Gatwick
There to Brighton using a pre-booked day return Victoria/Brighton
Then finishing with Brighton/Victoria, tune to Euston then > Manchester.

So basically; if I tap in with contactless at Heathrow, where would I tap out - do I have to leave the station @ Clapham Common or West Brompton? Or can you tap out within the station ie. changing platforms?
Also, I would be allowed to join the Victoria/Brighton train at Clapham or East Croydon?

Of course I could get the tube to Victoria from Heathrow (changing at Hammersmith) and there are no contactless issues there, just tap out leaving the underground station @ Victoria.

Do you want to stop off at any of these places in London, or are you just looking for the cheapest way to get to Brighton?

If you don't want to stop off en-route and hold a ticket from London Terminals or London Victoria, then you are best off touching in at Heathrow and out at Clapham Jn - you will be charged £1.90 off-peak (£1.25 if you have a Railcard on an Oyster card) or £3.30 peak, as long as you don't interchange between LU and NR at any of the London Termini.

There are yellow readers on platform 17 at Clapham Jn, otherwise you will need to touch your card on the barriers (you don't actually need to exit for this to work).

Assuming your pre-booked ticket from Victoria isn't an Advance ticket (fixed to one specific train), joining en-route at Clapham/East Croydon is absolutely fine. Even if it is an Advance, the worst penalty that you could incur (which is in any case unlikely to be enforced) would be to have to pay an excess fare to the cheapest valid walkup fare.

 

[Howardh]

Do you want to stop off at any of these places in London

I don't know...might have to pop out for a snack; if it costs more I won't

or are you just looking for the cheapest way to get to Brighton?

Not really, but don't want an unexpected charge along the way!

then you are best off touching in at Heathrow and out at Clapham Jn - you will be charged £1.90 off-peak (£1.25 if you have a Railcard on an Oyster card) or £3.30 peak, as long as you don't interchange between LU and NR at any of the London Termini.

This is what worries me, then final leg will be NR but inbetween I would be using the tube and TFL rail. Is it possible to get off the "Overground" and end up on a NR train (eg Gatwick express) without touching out - I assume so if you have to find those "yellow readers"?

Assuming your pre-booked ticket from Victoria isn't an Advance ticket

I imagine it will be a simple off-peak day return. Think trains leaving Brighton around 6.30pm are off peak?

Thanks for the quick reply, I've learned to watch out for the yellow readers on stations!

 

[paul1609]

if your not mode tied look at National Express for the Heathrow to Brighton leg. If your arrival coincides with a departure it will be both easier and quicker than faffing around in Central London. Heathrow to Brighton fares tend to be much cheaper than to Gatwick so it'll most likely be cheaper too.

 

[Watershed]

I don't know...might have to pop out for a snack; if it costs more I won't

When travelling on Oyster it usually costs more to "break your journey" en-route, as you will be charged for two separate journeys.

However, 'strategic' use of an OSI (out of station interchange) can allow a 'break' whilst only being charged for one journey in the system. There is a map here indicating all of the OSIs across London (shown as a dark red bordered ribbon). There are none that are massively convenient for your journey but I suppose Heathrow-Earls Court-East Putney-[OSI]-Putney-Clapham Jn would be one option. That would be charged the same as a journey to Clapham Jn without any OSI.

Not really, but don't want an unexpected charge along the way!

There would only really be unexpected charges if you touch out and back in somewhere that isn't a recognised OSI.

This is what worries me, then final leg will be NR but inbetween I would be using the tube and TFL rail. Is it possible to get off the "Overground" and end up on a NR train (eg Gatwick express) without touching out - I assume so if you have to find those "yellow readers"?

Yes - that is what the yellow readers are there for. Alternatively you can touch out at the barriers.

I imagine it will be a simple off-peak day return. Think trains leaving Brighton around 6.30pm are off peak?

The definition of Off-Peak depends on exactly what ticket you hold, but all Off-Peak fares from London to Brighton just have morning restrictions, none in the evening.

 

[Howardh]

if your not mode tied look at National Express for the Heathrow to Brighton leg. If your arrival coincides with a departure it will be both easier and quicker than faffing around in Central London. Heathrow to Brighton fares tend to be much cheaper than to Gatwick so it'll most likely be cheaper too.

Kinda thanks but no thanks! Cost isn't an issue (for once, but trying to keep it reasonable) but I'm not a fan of coach travel so avoid if I possibly can. Maybe in future thought if I have to transfer Heathrow/Gatwick it will be a consideration.

 

[dastocks]

If you can wait another 2-3 months you'll be able to use the Elizabeth Line to Farringdon (maybe need to change at Paddington) and then Thameslink to Brighton.

 

[JonathanH]

If you can wait another 2-3 months you'll be able to use the Elizabeth Line to Farringdon (maybe need to change at Paddington) and then Thameslink to Brighton.

Yes, but at a fairly substantial premium to going via Earls Court / West Brompton / Clapham Junction

 

[Howardh]

If you can wait another 2-3 months you'll be able to use the Elizabeth Line to Farringdon (maybe need to change at Paddington) and then Thameslink to Brighton.

Yes, hoping to use that line as soon as it opens! But I prefer Victoria > Brighton as it's quicker and the trains are a bit nicer. I'd hate to do Cambridge - Brighton, the sheer length of time on an uncomfortable seat! *Note; Thameslink should have a trolly service!

 

[Watershed]

Yes, but at a fairly substantial premium to going via Earls Court / West Brompton / Clapham Junction

Not necessarily - obviously in this case OP already holds a ticket to Brighton, but tickets from Farrington/London Thameslink are in many cases quite a bit cheaper than tickets from Victoria or London Terminals; enough to make up the difference in most cases.

 

[yorkie]

Yes, hoping to use that line as soon as it opens! But I prefer Victoria > Brighton as it's quicker and the trains are a bit nicer. I'd hate to do Cambridge - Brighton, the sheer length of time on an uncomfortable seat!

Many of the fast trains from Victoria to Brighton have the same or very similar "ironing board" seats as the Thameslink branded trains.

To be honest I would do whatever route is fastest by the journey planner for the time of day you are travelling.

 

[Howardh]

Many of the fast trains from Victoria to Brighton have the same or very similar "ironing board" seats as the Thameslink branded trains.

To be honest I would do whatever route is fastest by the journey planner for the time of day you are travelling.

They just SEEM more comfortable! Better colour scheme too, Thameslink feels like sitting in a hospital waiting room.

Time isn't particulary an issue, just find Thameslink a bit of a drag, stopping at most stations - could do all London terminals so go out from Victoria and return to St Pancras (that's acceptable?) but my original plan was to use lines I hadn't been on before - as part of the fun!

If I went from Heathrow to West Croydon via West Brompton, I could take the tram to East Croydon and catch the Brighton train there. West Croydon would be an OSI (??) therefore I'm still on the same contactless charge, and tap the yellow @ East Croydon to end my TFL leg?

 

[JonathanH]

Not necessarily - obviously in this case OP already holds a ticket to Brighton, but tickets from Farrington/London Thameslink are in many cases quite a bit cheaper than tickets from Victoria or London Terminals; enough to make up the difference in most cases.

Yes, but the fares from East Croydon, combined with avoiding Zone 1 are even cheaper while a premium applies for using TfL Rail from Heathrow. (I agree that it can be cheaper to travel from London Thameslink stations than Victoria.)

If I went from Heathrow to West Croydon via West Brompton, I could take the tram to East Croydon and catch the Brighton train there. West Croydon would be an OSI (??) therefore I'm still on the same charge?

No, the tram is charged as a bus fare. (There is no West Croydon OSI to anywhere.)

Going via Wimbledon, staying on the Underground fare structure and then paying for the tram is better value if somewhat slower.

 

[Howardh]

No, the tram is charged as a bus fare. (There is no West Croydon OSI to anywhere.)

Oh right, didn't know that!

 

[dastocks]

Yes, but at a fairly substantial premium to going via Earls Court / West Brompton / Clapham Junction

In that case you might want to look at a Brighton=>Zones 1-6 Day Travelcard and if you're determined to avoid Zone 1 there might be Brighton=>Zones 2-6 Day Travelcard available? You'll have to purchase this via the web in advance; the Southern website works fairly well and doesn't charge additional fees. You should be able to collect the ticket from a TVM at your local station. This will get you from Heathrow to Brighton via the Picaddilly Line and it may actually be cheaper than a combination of single fares priced in your direction of travel, especially if you can throw a railcard discount at it.
Brighton is not served directly from Clapham Junction and from 4th April Southern services between London and Brighton won't be running at all so you'll need to change again somewhere onto Gatwick Express or Thameslink.
Another point that may be relevant is that standard off-peak fares from London=>Brighton may not have evening peak time restrictions, but Super Off-Peak fares do.

 

[JonathanH]

there might be Brighton=>Zones 2-6 Day Travelcard available?

There isn't. Travelcards and all sorts of daily capping are Zone 1 centric.

 

[Watershed]

Yes, but the fares from East Croydon, combined with avoiding Zone 1 are even cheaper while a premium applies for using TfL Rail from Heathrow. (I agree that it can be cheaper to travel from London Thameslink stations than Victoria.)

Ah, I think we have crossed wires here as I understood OP intended to take the Tube from Heathrow. Either option is a plausible way of getting onto a Thameslink service (whether at St Pancras, Farringdon or elsewhere) - albeit TfL Rail will likely be a much quicker option once the Crossrail core opens.

Another point that may be relevant is that standard off-peak fares from London=>Brighton may not have evening peak time restrictions, but Super Off-Peak fares do

There are no Super Off-Peak fares from Victoria to Brighton - Southern's former PriceBuster fares (indicated by ticket type PDR) are only set in the direction towards London. In all cases, there are no plausible circumstances where you would be subject to evening restrictions leaving Brighton.

 

[dastocks]

They just SEEM more comfortable! Better colour scheme too, Thameslink feels like sitting in a hospital waiting room.

Time isn't particulary an issue, just find Thameslink a bit of a drag, stopping at most stations - could do all London terminals so go out from Victoria and return to St Pancras (that's acceptable?) but my original plan was to use lines I hadn't been on before - as part of the fun!

If I went from Heathrow to West Croydon via West Brompton, I could take the tram to East Croydon and catch the Brighton train there. West Croydon would be an OSI (??) therefore I'm still on the same contactless charge, and tap the yellow @ East Croydon to end my TFL leg?

From 4th April your train to Brighton from East Croydon *will* be Thameslink because there won't be anything else running to Brighton from there. Alternatively you could go to Gatwick and take your chances with Thameslink (4tph) or Gatwick Express (2tph) to Brighton.

 

[JonathanH]

Alternatively you could go to Gatwick and take your chances with Thameslink (4tph) or Gatwick Express (2tph) to Brighton from there.

Or go from Clapham Junction to Hove and from there into Brighton (although without the Hove shuttle the connections aren't great currently). Obviously the tap out would need to be at Clapham Junction in this case.

 

[yorkie]

They just SEEM more comfortable!

You may be thinking of the older Southern branded trains.

GTR's fast trains from Victoria to Brighton are operated by 387s with Ironing Board style hard seats.

As others have said from 4th April the trains are re-branded from "Southern" to "Gatwick Express" and the call at East Croydon is removed (the trains are t any quicker though!) , so if you want to get one of those you would need to change at Gatwick.

Time isn't particulary an issue, just find Thameslink a bit of a drag, stopping at most stations

Change at Gatwick onto a fast train if you like. It won't be quicker though

- could do all London terminals so go out from Victoria and return to St Pancras (that's acceptable?) but my original plan was to use lines I hadn't been on before - as part of the fun!

Yes you can do that

 

[dastocks]

Or go from Clapham Junction to Hove and from there into Brighton.

Noting that, from 4th April, the 'Hove Shuttle' is no more. It's 2tph Hove to Brighton for most of the day and the Brighton train leaves Hove 2 minutes before the train from London arrives...