Conductor Manager - Transport for Wales

[Jack1789]

Hi everyone,

New to the forum. Have been job hunting for a few months now as I'm looking to leave my current career for pastures new. Transport for Wales has been high on the list of prospective employers.

I've seen Transport for Wales are advertising for a Conductor Manager. Based on the job description, it looks like something I'm suited to as there are a lot of parallels with my current job.

I was wondering if anyone could offer info as to what the day-to-day of the role actually like. For example, is it primarily office based or would you be out on the trains with the conductors? I imagine it's mostly the former. If office based, is that likely to be in a particular station, or in a different site? The location for the job says "Cardiff Valleys / Taffs Well".

Is it shift work - earlies, lates, nights? Not an issue, just would like to know.

Any insights at all would be really appreciated. And it doesn't have to be just for Transport for Wales - if anyone can advise about the role more generally, I'd still be grateful.

Thanks.

 

[Horizon22]

Do you have previous conductor or railway experience? Not to say you couldn't be successful without either, but it would put you in good stead.

I imagine it is mainly office hours doing line management but you may need to be flexible for out of office visits. It doesn't say whether you'd be involved with the assessment process or not, but that may form part of it. There will probably be one main depot you would look (jointly) over, and may again a couple of different offices you could work from.

 

[Jack1789]

Do you have previous conductor or railway experience? Not to say you couldn't be successful without either, but it would put you in good stead.

I imagine it is mainly office hours doing line management but you may need to be flexible for out of office visits. It doesn't say whether you'd be involved with the assessment process or not, but that may form part of it. There will probably be one main depot you would look (jointly) over, and may again a couple of different offices you could work from.

Thanks very much!
I don't have prior experience in public transport full stop, however the job advert does state that prior operational experience isn't needed. I'm confident I can demonstrate relevant management experience in a busy public service oriented setting though, ensuring performance and compliance etc.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Personally can't think of anything worse than being manged by someone who's never done the job.

And by extension, doesn't understand it

 

[Jack1789]

Personally can't think of anything worse than being manged by someone who's never done the job.

And by extension, doesn't understand it

Thanks, really helpful.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Thanks, really helpful.

It's the attitude you're going to face. So get used to it.

 

[Krokodil]

Mostly office hours filling out paperwork and chasing up delay "please explains". You'll need to do riding assessments and unobtrusive monitoring at other times of day too, and Conductor Managers will have an on-call rota for responding to incidents at all hours.

 

[windnoise69]

Thanks, really helpful.

With experience in the role of “conductor” you will get a lot of respect from the team of which you will manage. Maybe a question to ask is if its line or competency based. If line management you may have a skill set of management but with no experience of the role. If competency based, it can be awkward to adjust to getting the respect off your team, especially if you had to discipline someone over an incident.

 

[Horizon22]

Thanks very much!
I don't have prior experience in public transport full stop, however the job advert does state that prior operational experience isn't needed. I'm confident I can demonstrate relevant management experience in a busy public service oriented setting though, ensuring performance and compliance etc.

Sure, but you will find that "the railway" is quite a unique industry and public transport generally already has its own quirks. Of course feel free to throw your hat into the ring, but there will be some issues with 'respect' rightly or wrongly from conductors in the grade and will be hard to shake the feeling you're just a pencil pusher and administrator who doesn't understand the role. Might be harsh and perhaps unjustified, but the feelings will be very real amongst many frontline staff. Of course you could win most round if you prove yourself, but it will be a hard slog.

With experience in the role of “conductor” you will get a lot of respect from the team of which you will manage. Maybe a question to ask is if its line or competency based. If line management you may have a skill set of management but with no experience of the role. If competency based, it can be awkward to adjust to getting the respect off your team, especially if you had to discipline someone over an incident.

Yes some TOCs do split this out - increasingly so for the driver grade - although it seems rarer amongst train crew.

 

[Jack1789]

Thanks all for the replies - the organisation I currently work in has similar attitudes (in some cases) re. supervisors/managers coming in from elsewhere, and up until fairly recently everyone had to start entry-level and work their way up. I know some will balk at the idea of people coming straight into management posts, lots of industries where there's a strong culture are like that.

It's also quite normal in many organisations. There are just some jobs (my own current one, and clearly the trains!) where it rubs up against the established culture.

Perhaps not a conversation for here as I don't want to derail or go off on tangents, but there is something to be said for people coming into a job from other sectors/organisations, with different ways of seeing things, fresh points of view, etc. Not reinventing the wheel, just fresh perspectives. I think a lot of it is down to how you approach it. If you come in all, "I am your manager, rah rah rah" then that's always going to get people's backs up.

All of that aside, I'm still interested in hearing any insights people have about the role itself, what it involves, etc.

Thanks again.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Thanks all for the replies - the organisation I currently work in has similar attitudes (in some cases) re. supervisors/managers coming in from elsewhere, and up until fairly recently everyone had to start entry-level and work their way up. I know some will balk at the idea of people coming straight into management posts, lots of industries where there's a strong culture are like that.

It's also quite normal in many organisations. There are just some jobs (my own current one, and clearly the trains!) where it rubs up against the established culture.

Perhaps not a conversation for here as I don't want to derail or go off on tangents, but there is something to be said for people coming into a job from other sectors/organisations, with different ways of seeing things, fresh points of view, etc. Not reinventing the wheel, just fresh perspectives. I think a lot of it is down to how you approach it. If you come in all, "I am your manager, rah rah rah" then that's always going to get people's backs up.

All of that aside, I'm still interested in hearing any insights people have about the role itself, what it involves, etc.

Thanks again.

Not many fresh ideas you can bring to a role governed by a rulebook written in blood.

And unless you've worked the 2230 Merthyr on a Saturday, you really won't understand what your crew are dealing with.

 

[Horizon22]

Perhaps not a conversation for here as I don't want to derail or go off on tangents, but there is something to be said for people coming into a job from other sectors/organisations, with different ways of seeing things, fresh points of view, etc. Not reinventing the wheel, just fresh perspectives. I think a lot of it is down to how you approach it. If you come in all, "I am your manager, rah rah rah" then that's always going to get people's backs up.

All of that aside, I'm still interested in hearing any insights people have about the role itself, what it involves, etc.

Thanks again.

That's perfectly reasonable and it does happen, just explaining the impact / outcome you may get. The right attitude goes a long way.

I'm not sure there are many around on the forum who have got any experience of doing this role though, although we have plenty of guards / conductors / train managers on the forum who might be able to give that perspective if they so wish.

 

[WF4HA5HE]

I'm surprised it states you don't need operational experience because at my TOC all conductor managers must have been qualified especially when they are doing rules exams and ride outs. Does it say you will be trained as a conductor so you will hold the same competency of those you will be managing or is it more paperwork and just asking questions off a sheet when doing assessments i wonder?

 

[Krokodil]

Not many fresh ideas you can bring to a role governed by a rulebook written in blood.

And a Conductor Manager is too junior to be making much in the way of changes. The Head of Conductors or their north & south underlings possibly, but an ordinary Conductor Manager will very much be doing the routine work of assessments, disciplinaries, delay reports, complaints etc.

I'm surprised it states you don't need operational experience because at my TOC all conductor managers must have been qualified especially when they are doing rules exams and ride outs. Does it say you will be trained as a conductor so you will hold the same competency of those you will be managing or is it more paperwork and just asking questions off a sheet when doing assessments i wonder?

When Conductor Managers have been employed without already being a Conductor, I gather that they have been sent on the course before doing anything else.

 

[Horizon22]

I'm surprised it states you don't need operational experience because at my TOC all conductor managers must have been qualified especially when they are doing rules exams and ride outs. Does it say you will be trained as a conductor so you will hold the same competency of those you will be managing or is it more paperwork and just asking questions off a sheet when doing assessments i wonder?

Yes the advert did say you would be trained accordingly

 

[PupCuff]

Conductor Manager, in whatever guise each TOC has it, is a good role, however you do tend to become a bit of a jack of all trades with not much room to specialise in anything.

In my experience you often find people who go into those roles from being a conductor find it difficult to pick up the management skills, and likewise the people who have come in from non-conductor roles often find it difficult to pick up that side of the role. Both sides of the role are equally as important as each other.

 

[LowLevel]

Not many fresh ideas you can bring to a role governed by a rulebook written in blood.

And unless you've worked the 2230 Merthyr on a Saturday, you really won't understand what your crew are dealing with.

I think you're being a bit unfair. I've been a conductor for years and I've seen many managers come and go. I've seen several abject failures come into the manager role off the street. I've also seen some people take to it like a duck to water and become well respected individuals who have gone on to have good careers in the industry. I've also known some truly awful managers who've come from the train crew grades.

It is hard to attract internal "talent" for want of a better word into these junior management grades - the money is about the same and there's on call, hassle about disciplinaries and so on to deal with.

Having the right personal attributes and starting with an open mind is most important, and particularly in a role working with staff who are highly trained professionals being willing to listen and learn from them.

An example of healthy culture I'm quite happy to share - at our place despite the industrial relations issues in the industry local level relations between the staff, managers and importantly on the railway the unions are pretty good.

You'll often get managers who understand they aren't on the front line as often as their staff asking experienced train crew or indeed the local union representatives' advice on things to check their understanding. Same goes for Control - we are a smallish outfit and I've had controllers call me plenty of times asking for an opinion on something they're looking at.

Go at things in that kind of collaborative way and you're more likely to make it work than not. We all have to exist together at the end of the day.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Whilst it can be frustrating to have people in management grades who have little to no experience of the actual roles they are expected to manage, it's equally frustrating to have managers who have worked their way up and have all the experience of the job, but have absolutely zero management skills. The skills required to do a job, and the skills required to manage the people doing that job are two very different things.

 

[Cestrian21]

The Conductor Manager role is a varied one, focussed on people and competency management, but with a fair bit of admin. The Job Description gives a fair summary of the key tasks and contacts involved.

It's mostly office-based; but your desk is normally at the depot with your team. Conductor Managers do get out on trains to undertake competency assessments and can work trains themselves if there's a late-notice shortage of train crew. So it's not completely desk-bound.

Although predominantly 9-5 some weekend or shift working is expected and there's on-call to consider too.

 

[Jack1789]

And unless you've worked the 2230 Merthyr on a Saturday, you really won't understand what your crew are dealing with.

Given what I do now, I think I probably do have an idea...

On a serious note though - thanks, everyone (and I really do mean everyone, even those who've had more jaded responses).

I'm in the process of fine-tuning the personal statement. A bit last-minute due to work commitments these past few days, but fingers crossed.

Some really useful information here. I'm grateful.

 

[BrokenSam]

Given what I do now, I think I probably do have an idea...

On a serious note though - thanks, everyone (and I really do mean everyone, even those who've had more jaded responses).

I'm in the process of fine-tuning the personal statement. A bit last-minute due to work commitments these past few days, but fingers crossed.

Some really useful information here. I'm grateful.

Go for it dude. Wouldn't listen to the negativity. Fresh eyes are never bad. If you get in, understand that you won't know everything and get your conductors onside/ask them questions. One of the better managers I had came off the street. A guard manager at TFW too.

 

[Jack1789]

Go for it dude. Wouldn't listen to the negativity. Fresh eyes are never bad. If you get in, understand that you won't know everything and get your conductors onside/ask them questions. One of the better managers I had came off the street. A guard manager at TFW too.

Cheers.