Contactless confusion

[Waterway]

Hello,

I used contactless for a return journey from Luton Airport Parkway to Blackfriars, returning from Waterloo, including two zone 1 LU journeys. For which I’ve been charged £35.70.

I got the 09:32 train from Luton thinking that would keep me on the off peak, but the TFL page shows me as taking the 09:25-10:16.
The return journey was off peak.
I did ask at the gate line if it made any difference if I tapped in before 9:30 and she said no, it’s the time you tap out that counts.

I was expecting to pay £19 for the return Thameslink (i.e the Super off peak card). plus the 2 LU journeys. But clearly I have completely misunderstood.

1, Does the system just assume you take the first available train ?
2, Is this one of those trips where a Travel card makes more sense ?

I’ll be making the same trip again soon so eager to get it right next time.

Thanks

 

[hexagon789]

Hello,

I used contactless for a return journey from Luton Airport Parkway to Blackfriars, returning from Waterloo, including two zone 1 LU journeys. For which I’ve been charged £35.70.

I got the 09:32 train from Luton thinking that would keep me on the off peak, but the TFL page shows me as taking the 09:25-10:16.
The return journey was off peak.
I did ask at the gate line if it made any difference if I tapped in before 9:30 and she said no, it’s the time you tap out that counts.

I was expecting to pay £19 for the return Thameslink (i.e the Super off peak card). plus the 2 LU journeys. But clearly I have completely misunderstood.

1, Does the system just assume you take the first available train ?
2, Is this one of those trips where a Travel card makes more sense ?

I’ll be making the same trip again soon so eager to get it right next time.

Thanks

It's based on when you touch in, not out.

There is a few mins grace, but if you did tap in at 09:32, that should be off-peak anyway.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I used contactless for a return journey from Luton Airport Parkway to Blackfriars, returning from Waterloo, including two zone 1 LU journeys. For which I’ve been charged £35.70.

I got the 09:32 train from Luton thinking that would keep me on the off peak, but the TFL page shows me as taking the 09:25-10:16.
The return journey was off peak.
I did ask at the gate line if it made any difference if I tapped in before 9:30 and she said no, it’s the time you tap out that counts.
[...]

Alas the gateline assistant was wrong - it's based on when you touch in. There is an (unpublicised) three minute grace period, so if you had touched in at 09:27 you'd have benefitted for the off-peak fare - unfortunately you tapped in less a couple of minutes too early for that.

[...]
I was expecting to pay £19 for the return Thameslink (i.e the Super off peak card). plus the 2 LU journeys. But clearly I have completely misunderstood.

Contactless PAYG fares are different from conventional fares - and return fares as such are not offered.

In your case, Luton Airport Parkway to Blackfriars using contactless is £15.90 Peak (M-F 0630-0930) or £11.70 Off peak - you can look this up on TfL's Single fare finder, or @MikeWh's rather easier to use 'Oyster Fares Central' Fare Finder.

The Luton Airport Parkway to London Thameslink Super Off-peak Return fare at £19.00 (available as a printed ticket or e-ticket) is good so long as you don't need to travel back to Luton in the evening peak - specifically on a train that starts from or passes through St Pancras between 16:29 and before 19:02 (as per restriction code LS).

As to the specific breakdown of your £35.70 charge, I'm afraid my sleuthing skills are a bit spent for today but you can look it up either on your TfL contactless account if you have one (and if you don't I'd recommend setting one up), or else you can see your past 7 day journey and payment history here.

 

[Waterway]

Thanks JP for the comprehensive reply.

here is the breakdown from TFL.

Luton Parkway - Blackfriers. £15.90
Zone 1 £2.70
Zone 1. £2.70
Waterloo - Luton Parkway £14.40


So lesson learnt for next time.
thanks again.

 

[Haywain]

Thanks JP for the comprehensive reply.

here is the breakdown from TFL.

Luton Parkway - Blackfriers. £15.90
Zone 1 £2.70
Zone 1. £2.70
Waterloo - Luton Parkway £14.40


So lesson learnt for next time.
thanks again.

Presumably the zone 1 journeys were at separate times to the journeys from and to Luton Airport Parkway?

 

[jon81uk]

I guess you could attempt a complant with the TOC for the incorrect advice by the person on the gateline if you wanted to.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Thanks JP for the comprehensive reply.

here is the breakdown from TFL.

Luton Parkway - Blackfriers. £15.90
Zone 1 £2.70
Zone 1. £2.70
Waterloo - Luton Parkway £14.40

Those fares all make sense - the last one being a through (multi-modal) fare from Waterloo Underground station to Luton Airport Parkway, i.e. you made a through journey using the Tube and then a National Rail train - I'm guessing you went by Tube from Waterloo to St Pancras, and thence train to Luton Airport Parkway.

One quick observation on that - from the Waterloo area it's not that far to walk to the southern entrance of Blackfriars station, from where (as you know) you can catch a direct Thameslink train to Luton. From a fares perspective, this is a cheaper option - as stated previously, using contactless it's £11.70 Off-peak (or £15.90 Peak), but also if you had the aforementioned £19 Super Off-Peak ticket from Luton to London Thameslink you could obviously use that - and so save on the Tube fare from Waterloo to King's Cross St Pancras.

Of course, it'd take a bit longer doing that so you might consider the Tube single of £2.70 (or £2.80 Peak) to be money well spent if you just wanted to get on and get home!

So lesson learnt for next time.
thanks again.

It's disappointing that you were given duff information by the gateline assistant at Luton Airport Parkway - they should know better, but obviously they didn't! As @jon81uk says, you could make a complaint to Thameslink (GTR) who run Luton Airport Parkway. This is their contact form:
www.thameslinkrailway.com/help-and-support/contact-us

 

[Somewhere]

It's ridiculous the time you tap in is used without reference to the timetable.

 

[gray1404]

I would phone the Transport for London helpline and complain about this. Provided you do not have form with them they might be willing to give a partial refund to the off-peak for especially if you demonstrate which train you actually took.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I would phone the Transport for London helpline and complain about this. Provided you do not have form with them they might be willing to give a partial refund to the off-peak for especially if you demonstrate which train you actually took.

They might - in this case the difference between the Peak and Off-peak fare is £4.20.

 

[Hadders]

It's ridiculous the time you tap in is used without reference to the timetable.

How else is a contactless syste supposed to work, especially when the same system is used on the Underground.

Although it's an issue for the OP int his case, overall it's swings and roundabouts - just this morning I touched in at 06:28 and made a journey across London paying the off-peak fare on a journey that to all intents and purposes was a 'peak' journey.

 

[Somewhere]

How else is a contactless syste supposed to work, especially when the same system is used on the Underground.

Although it's an issue for the OP int his case, overall it's swings and roundabouts - just this morning I touched in at 06:28 and made a journey across London paying the off-peak fare on a journey that to all intents and purposes was a 'peak' journey.

I can't see a reason why the time couldn't be varied according to the timetable at each station.
Quickfare machines could do it thirty years ago!

 

[Hadders]

I can't see a reason why the time couldn't be varied according to the timetable at each station.
Quickfare machines could do it thirty years ago!

How's that going to work at a busy station like St Pancras in the afternoon peak? Contactless works o the basis of the touch in time,, if you try and have station specific times then it would be an absolute nightmare trying to maintain it and it would cause more confusion.

 

[PeterC]

I can't see a reason why the time couldn't be varied according to the timetable at each station.
Quickfare machines could do it thirty years ago!

TfL already do it with times for off peak capping for journeys starting in zone 9.

 

[Somewhere]

TfL already do it with times for off peak capping for journeys starting in zone 9.

How's that going to work at a busy station like St Pancras in the afternoon peak? Contactless works o the basis of the touch in time,, if you try and have station specific times then it would be an absolute nightmare trying to maintain it and it would cause more confusion.

There's the answer. TfL already do it, apparently, for their own stations. So it's obviously possible

 

[CyrusWuff]

There's the answer. TfL already do it, apparently, for their own stations. So it's obviously possible

That only affects whether a journey in the morning peak counts towards an Off-Peak daily cap or not, it's still charged as a peak journey if you touch in between 0630 and 0930.