Contactless or Oyster for business travel - Fares and receipts

[Ediswan]

For several years we have been using Oyster for business travel - a combination of NR and TfL. The company credit cards have not been contactless. Now we are getting contactless credit cards. So I asked if we would be switching from Oyster to contactless. Apparently not, for two stated reasons:

* Oyster cards make the journey cheaper
* You cannot get a receipt (Oyster emails receipts for auto top-up)

Regarding fares. The well known web site https://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/contactless-vs-oyster/ seems to say that Oyster will never be cheaper than contactless, but may be more expensive.

There is also the added inconvenince of having to separate an Oyster card from a contactless credit card to avoid card clash.

So, am I right about fares, and what have others done to counter a declared requirement for receipts?

Two notes: (1) There is no detail given as to why receipts are sought. (2) This is a small company, I can talk to anybody directly.

 

[smithy1]

Regarding fares. The well known web site https://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/contactless-vs-oyster/ seems to say that Oyster will never be cheaper than contactless, but may be more expensive.

My understanding is that this is true (i.e. contactless is always the same price or cheaper than Oyster) under PAYG. One could, for example, pay less by purchasing a month-long Travelcard on Oyster (but travelcards are not available on contactless).

For receipts, you can register the card on contactless.tfl.gov.uk and view payment history; I don't know if this is sufficient for your purposes.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

For several years we have been using Oyster for business travel - a combination of NR and TfL. The company credit cards have not been contactless. Now we are getting contactless credit cards. So I asked if we would be switching from Oyster to contactless. Apparently not, for two stated reasons:

* Oyster cards make the journey cheaper
* You cannot get a receipt (Oyster emails receipts for auto top-up)

Regarding fares. The well known web site https://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/contactless-vs-oyster/ seems to say that Oyster will never be cheaper than contactless, but may be more expensive.

There is also the added inconvenince of having to separate an Oyster card from a contactless credit card to avoid card clash.

So, am I right about fares, and what have others done to counter a declared requirement for receipts?

Two notes: (1) There is no detail given as to why receipts are sought. (2) This is a small company, I can talk to anybody directly.

If there are any users who currently use Railcard discounted fares for Oyster, these are not compatible with contactless and so only the full fare can be paid when using contactless. Other than that, I agree that contactless is probably better.

 

[Howardh]

I owe you a vote of thanks..this thread reminded me to update my card details with TFL as the card they have details of has expired and I may have been left stranded!!

 

[Ediswan]

If there are any users who currently use Railcard discounted fares for Oyster,

Not a railcard in sight. This is all the Oyster/Contactless equiavalent of full walk-up adult fares.

 

[Hadders]

Contactless with a receipt downloaded from the TfL website (no need to register the card either) should be sufficient.

 

[yorkie]

For several years we have been using Oyster for business travel - a combination of NR and TfL. The company credit cards have not been contactless. Now we are getting contactless credit cards. So I asked if we would be switching from Oyster to contactless. Apparently not, for two stated reasons:

* Oyster cards make the journey cheaper

The person who has said that has misunderstood, as that is not the case (assuming no Railcard is held)

* You cannot get a receipt (Oyster emails receipts for auto top-up)

This does not make sense. Why would a receipt for adding funds to a card/account matter? What matters is surely the journey history. This is available in your account regardless of whether you have added an Oyster or Contactless card to your account.

Regarding fares. The well known web site https://www.oyster-rail.org.uk/contactless-vs-oyster/ seems to say that Oyster will never be cheaper than contactless, but may be more expensive.

That website is correct (indeed the site is the creation of forum member @MikeWh, who I was with earlier today)

There is also the added inconvenience of having to separate an Oyster card from a contactless credit card to avoid card clash.

Agreed.

So, am I right about fares, and what have others done to counter a declared requirement for receipts?

For my expense claims, I am required to provide the journey history.

Providing evidence of adding money onto an account/card is neither here nor there and does not evidence making a journey.

The equivalent of a receipt for adding money to an Oyster card is a receipt for paying money into your bank account. Totally useless and meaningless, if the Oyster card is yours.

If it's a company card, and they have access to the journey history, the that's a different matter - but then there should be no need for you to provide a receipt or for you to add any money to it, as they could do that!

 

[smithy1]

The equivalent of a receipt for adding money to an Oyster card is a receipt for paying money into your bank account. Totally useless and meaningless!

Except, of course, if the receipt is needed as part of their bookkeeping procedures to document, for example, that the payment was to TfL and not to an employee in an attempt to circumvent income tax.

 

[yorkie]

Documenting that money has been added to an Oyster card means nothing in itself; you could add money on a card and then use it for completely different journeys, or even just get it refunded.

What should matter is evidence of the journey history in the account.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Documenting that money has been added to an Oyster card means nothing in itself; you could add money on a card and then use it for completely different journeys, or even just get it refunded.

What should matter is evidence of the journey history in the account.

We would claim back the money for the top up that's the point where the expense is incurred. I have two oyster cards one for work and my Priv one for leisure.

 

[Puffing Devil]

We would claim back the money for the top up that's the point where the expense is incurred. I have two oyster cards one for work and my Priv one for leisure.

That was the approach I took - topping up £25 at a time and the company was happy with that approach. There has to be a little trust!

Now company Amex cards are contactless, I simply use them. We have an integrated expense feed from Amex and I need to note the journey made next to the expense - it helps that we do not need to receipt expenses under £10. If I did, I would go back to the Oyster top-ups - I will try my best to get good value for whoever I work for, though if they choose to make their systems too time-consuming or difficult, I will use whatever is easiest for me. That may mean no split tickets or using Oyster, even if it's more expensive.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I'll be getting a contactless Company Credit Card from September so I will be using that for trips in london rather than Oyster or my own Contactless card. My company only pays for trips made, not top ups

 

[Ediswan]

Thanks all. Good news. It seems I was not the only person to ask the question at work. Contactless has been upgraded to 'a good way of paying for train and tube travel' (there is an inexplicable aversion to using buses) and they are creeping up on using the journey history in lieu of paper receipts. As several have pointed out, printed copies of Oyster top-up recepits were never proving the expenditure was genuine anyway.

 

[swt_passenger]

As background info, was the point about the relative costs to do with the contactless ‘system’ being first to have weekly capping, which at the time was likely to cost a bit less than the same journeys made using 7 x daily caps on Oyster Payg?

 

[edwin_m]

My employer has recently decided they not only want the journey history with the claim but they also want each individual journey claimed as a separate expense line even if there were several trips on one day all chargeable to the same project. Naturally they didn't tell anyone this in advance, just started rejecting claims when people followed the old system...

Not sure if this is a HMRC rule or just something internal.

 

[island]

This does not make sense. Why would a receipt for adding funds to a card/account matter? What matters is surely the journey history. This is available in your account regardless of whether you have added an Oyster or Contactless card to your account.

Some firms under their expense policy accept a declaration from a staff member that he/she will use his/her Oyster card (or a separate Oyster card) only for business use, and will reimburse the top ups rather than ask for individual journey receipts, in the interest of reducing faff.

They are probably the same ones that insist on handing in of original tickets for National Rail expense claims.

 

[Clip]

Some firms under their expense policy accept a declaration from a staff member that he/she will use his/her Oyster card (or a separate Oyster card) only for business use, and will reimburse the top ups rather than ask for individual journey receipts, in the interest of reducing faff.

They are probably the same ones that insist on handing in of original tickets for National Rail expense claims.

Ive always just had to hand in a receipt for the top up in the same way as if id buy carnets or tickets - even one TOC i worked for would accept the receipt - they would however question me and request journey details if i was spending more than £20 a month as there was very little need to use other transport that much for work purposes.

 

[323235]

For the last few years we have used a cloud expense program which doesn't require original receipts , only a clear photograph. The finance team then print off all the receipts from that.

I don't think they ask for print outs from TFL accounts but not sure they know about the ability to register for an account with a contactless card and view journey details.

 

[edwin_m]

Some firms under their expense policy accept a declaration from a staff member that he/she will use his/her Oyster card (or a separate Oyster card) only for business use, and will reimburse the top ups rather than ask for individual journey receipts, in the interest of reducing faff.

They are probably the same ones that insist on handing in of original tickets for National Rail expense claims.

This may be sufficient for many roles, but for jobs where expenses are charged to one of many different projects they would need a claim from the employee identifying the applicable project for each item. This would probably need a journey history to support it.

TfL used to give the option of a custom date range for the journey history, which was handy as I could get one starting from the day after my last claim so it only showed relevant items. Now I have to print one or more whole-month histories to get the correct date range, and these may include items claimed previously.