Could a direct Norwich - London service operate via Cambridge when the main line is closed for engineering works?

[sussexbythesea]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/great-eastern-weekend-engineering-works.243700/

Is there any ability to potentially divert Norwich to London trains via Cambridge?

The trains from Norwich to Cambridge today were packed with hordes people changing onto the Cambridge to Liverpool Street services?

Are there enough 755s to run at least an hourly service?

 

[Jamesrob637]

Is there any ability to potentially divert Norwich to London trains via Cambridge? The trains from Norwich to Cambridge today were packed with hordes people changing onto the Cambridge to Liverpool Street services? Are there enough 755s to run at least an hourly service?

More time on diesel and are the 745s capable of running on diesel?

 

[JonathanH]

More time on diesel and are the 745s capable of running on diesel?

745s are electric only.

Is there any ability to potentially divert Norwich to London trains via Cambridge? The trains from Norwich to Cambridge today were packed with hordes people changing onto the Cambridge to Liverpool Street services?

It is only Norwich and its hinterland that can go via Cambridge. The trains on the route are well used even without passengers diverting from the Ipswich route but hampered by being restricted to single units by platform capacity.

There isn't really any need for direct trains from Norwich to London via Cambridge because 10-car 720s between London and Cambridge are more efficient than anything else available. Capacity between Norwich and Cambridge is more the thing to monitor.

 

[dk1]

Is there any ability to potentially divert Norwich to London trains via Cambridge? The trains from Norwich to Cambridge today were packed with hordes people changing onto the Cambridge to Liverpool Street services? Are there enough 755s to run at least an hourly service?

Not really, it would tie up too many 755s when 720s would be better. Relief Norwich-Cambridge services were booked all weekend but unfortunately the all day signalling problems around Brandon saw them scrapped yesterday to thin the service out.

It has never really been a thing since the 1980s when Norwich-Colchester was electrified & Norwich lost much of its diesel locomotive allocation. That was followed a couple of years later by the electrification & use of EMUs (only a short period of 86s working the WAML) so through working became increasingly difficult. Privatisation made this even worse as crew knowledge was lost apart from a subsidised spurt during the six week Ipswich tunnel blockade in 2004 when two loco-hauled intercity services were provided daily.

Best option now is for a half hourly Norwich to Cambridge service during GEML closures which help relieve the pressure on that route & EMR services to Ely. I’ve encounter some of the worst overcrowding on this route this weekend that I have witnessed, not helped by the very popular Hare Fares promotion.

 

[RailWonderer]

A Kings Cross to Norwich calling at Cambridge, Ely, Brandon, Thetford and Norwich every hour on weekend engineering would work, though it would more likely use the WA to avoid the congested ECML with Thameslink, GN and LNER services.
There should be enough 755s for an hourly service (and you would surely have to run a pair of 4s). I think a through service is better than changing at Cambridge for a 720 so you can run non-stop from there and loop some slow 720 stoppers, since Cambridge to Liverpool St is far too slow unless you do it non-stop.

 

[dk1]

A Kings Cross to Norwich calling at Cambridge, Ely, Brandon, Thetford and Norwich every hour on weekend engineering would work, though it would more likely use the WA to avoid the congested ECML with Thameslink, GN and LNER services.
There should be enough 755s for an hourly service (and you would surely have to run a pair of 4s). I think a through service is better than changing at Cambridge for a 720 so you can run non-stop from there and loop some slow 720 stoppers, since Cambridge to Liverpool St is far too slow unless you do it non-stop.

You wouldn’t be able to stop at Brandon or Thetford with anything more than a 4-car 755 so no multi-unit working. I know they have ASDO but it simply wouldn’t happen on a planned basis. Also no GA crews would sign the route via Royston to Hitchin & Kings X. You’d never have enough 755s available to operate an hourly service on this or the Liverpool St WAML route & I cannot see the fast paths putting booked Cambridge to Liverpool St services out of the way just for occasional diverted Norwich services happening either.

I’m just trying to be realistic rather than negative. Nice idea all the same.

 

[Class 170101]

You wouldn’t be able to stop at Brandon or Thetford with anything more than a 4-car 755 so no multi-unit working. I know they have ASDO but it simply wouldn’t happen on a planned basis. Also no GA crews would sign the route via Royston to Hitchin & Kings X. You’d never have enough 755s available to operate an hourly service on this or the Liverpool St WAML route & I cannot see the fast paths putting booked Cambridge to Liverpool St services out of the way just for occasional diverted Norwich services happening either.

I’m just trying to be realistic rather than negative. Nice idea all the same.

Definitely no paths avilable south of Cambridge. You might have more chance extending the existing Kings Cross - Ely service to Norwich but that causes issues with traction and operator.

 

[dk1]

Definitely no paths avilable south of Cambridge. You might have more chance extending the existing Kings Cross - Ely service to Norwich but that causes issues with traction and operator.

Would need some kind of miracle for that to happen plus the good people of Downham & Lynn would lose any hope of their all day half hourly aspiration lol.

 

[Class 170101]

Would need some kind of miracle for that to happen plus the good people of Downham & Lynn would lose any hope of their all day half hourly aspiration lol.

Split 12 car at either Cambridge or Ely.

 

[dk1]

Split 12 car at either Cambridge or Ely.

Even better luck with that one!!