Could a modern version of slam door/compartment stock be workable?

[PTR 444]

No, not slam door mechanism in itself.

I’m thinking of a multiple unit with more than 2 doors on each carriage, similar to the CIGs and VEPs. The advantage of these is that boarding and alighting was quicker since this was spread across the train rather than condensed in two places on the carriage. A modern version would use automatic or push button operated doors, wide enough to allow boarding and alighting at the same time.

Additionally, with modern technology allowing trains to show seating availability, one could compartmentalise the stock so that each external door can only lead to one compartment inside the train. Electronic displays at the station and on apps would show which compartments had seating and standing room so passengers can make an informed choice, while what was the corridor space can be used for additional seating. It would make revenue checks and trolley catering much more difficult, but on a metro-style railway with gatelines at every station I think this could be workable if it increases capacity and reduces dwell times.

Thoughts?

 

[hexagon789]

No, not slam door mechanism in itself.

I’m thinking of a multiple unit with more than 2 doors on each carriage, similar to the CIGs and VEPs. The advantage of these is that boarding and alighting was quicker since this was spread across the train rather than condensed in two places on the carriage. A modern version would use automatic or push button operated doors, wide enough to allow boarding and alighting at the same time.

Additionally, with modern technology allowing trains to show seating availability, one could compartmentalise the stock so that each external door can only lead to one compartment inside the train. Electronic displays at the station and on apps would show which compartments had seating and standing room so passengers can make an informed choice, while what was the corridor space can be used for additional seating. It would make revenue checks and trolley catering much more difficult, but on a metro-style railway with gatelines at every station I think this could be workable if it increases capacity and reduces dwell times.

Thoughts?

The reason that totally sealed, non-corridor compartment stock was finally withdrawn was safety.

A series of assaults and I believe one still unsolved murder on late-night trains led first to their restriction to peak hour services and later withdrawal. I doubt the personal safety aspect has changed at all in any respect.

 

[PTR 444]

The reason that totally sealed, non-corridor compartment stock was finally withdrawn was safety.

A series of assaults and I believe one still unsolved murder on late-night trains led first to their restriction to peak hour services and later withdrawal. I doubt the personal safety aspect has changed at all in any respect.

That is a valid point.

Maybe they could be restricted to single party groups only (so only one group booking can be made per compartment). It would be horrible for capacity but might work on tourist routes with a high volume of large groups.

Away from this, is there a case for simply specifying some rolling stock to have more than two doors per side on each car to speed up boarding and alighting?

 

[SteveyBee131]

That is a valid point.

Maybe they could be restricted to single party groups only (so only one group booking can be made per compartment). It would be horrible for capacity but might work on tourist routes with a high volume of large groups.

Away from this, is there a case for simply specifying some rolling stock to have more than two doors per side on each car to speed up boarding and alighting?

The class 345s on Crossrail have 3 sets of wide doors per carriage

 

[dosxuk]

Away from this, is there a case for simply specifying some rolling stock to have more than two doors per side on each car to speed up boarding and alighting?

Like a class 345 you mean?

 

[twpsaesneg]

I suspect you would have issues getting the required strength of bodyshell to meet modern crashworthiness standards, with that many door openings. One of the issues on the Cardiff Valley Lines Class 116 DMUs was when they were crush loaded on a rugby day, the frames could flex just enough to jam the doors in the centre section (until enough people had alighted!)

 

[Invincible]

The reason that totally sealed, non-corridor compartment stock was finally withdrawn was safety.

A series of assaults and I believe one still unsolved murder on late-night trains led first to their restriction to peak hour services and later withdrawal. I doubt the personal safety aspect has changed at all in any respect.

The London Underground heritage 4TC unit has some corridor compartments and centrally locked slam doors,, but only used for limited Metropolitan and mainline charters.

 

[hexagon789]

The London Underground heritage 4TC unit has some corridor compartments and centrally locked slam doors,, but only used for limited Metropolitan and mainline charters.

The 4TC has a side corridor connecting the compartments though.

 

[43096]

That is a valid point.

Maybe they could be restricted to single party groups only (so only one group booking can be made per compartment). It would be horrible for capacity but might work on tourist routes with a high volume of large groups.

So group booking only with no access to toilets. It wouldn’t work.

 

[Halifaxlad]

The reason that totally sealed, non-corridor compartment stock was finally withdrawn was safety.

A series of assaults and I believe one still unsolved murder on late-night trains led first to their restriction to peak hour services and later withdrawal. I doubt the personal safety aspect has changed at all in any respect.

That's easily solveable as you could replicate a 50s BR SLO although the practicalities of having every door mechanised would be prohibitively expensive.

I suppose this discussion would be better if we say about having 4 sets of doors on each side of the carriage rather than just two.

 

[HSTEd]

As stated in this thread, there is no hard reason why a train must only have two sets of doors per side.
Crossrail stock has 3 after all.

Some tube stock has four!
That would approach the unloading capability of compartment stock without all the operational headaches.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Another point: more doors would certainly help for those with prams and everyone else who are normally inconvenience by them.

 

[PTR 444]

Like a class 345 you mean?

Exactly that, although why stop at 3 doors per carriage?

 

[Vespa]

I remember reading how people have fallen out from trains leaning on an insecurly locked slam doors before they were withdrawn, sliding doors were considered safer.

 

[david1212]

That's easily solveable as you could replicate a 50s BR SLO although the practicalities of having every door mechanised would be prohibitively expensive.

I suppose this discussion would be better if we say about having 4 sets of doors on each side of the carriage rather than just two.

Above anything else this. From the images I have seen even the new Siemens Inspiro trains for LU are only two pairs of doors per side.

 

[stuu]

Above anything else this. From the images I have seen even the new Siemens Inspiro trains for LU are only two pairs of doors per side.

They have shorter cars than the current 1973 stock, so have similar numbers of doors per train

 

[Dr Hoo]

Another point: more doors would certainly help for those with prams and everyone else who are normally inconvenience by them.

Perhaps I’m missing something but where would the pram actually fit, once it had been put into one of the mini-compartments (presumably with face-to-face transverse seating)?

 

[12C]

Full width non corridor compartment stock wouldn’t happen nowadays due to safety issues mentioned above, but a return to some side corridor compartment stock would definitely make rail travel a lot more pleasant, especially on long distance journeys.

How many times on this forum do we hear about annoying passenger behaviour, from families with noisy kids, people playing music too loud, groups drinking and swearing, and those wanting a quiet journey or to get a bit of work done? Compartments would help give different groups of people using the railway a bit of their own space, with less chance of them bothering others.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Full width non corridor compartment stock wouldn’t happen nowadays due to safety issues mentioned above, but a return to some side corridor compartment stock would definitely make rail travel a lot more pleasant, especially on long distance journeys.

How many times on this forum do we hear about annoying passenger behaviour, from families with noisy kids, people playing music too loud, groups drinking and swearing, and those wanting a quiet journey or to get a bit of work done? Compartments would help give different groups of people using the railway a bit of their own space, with less chance of them bothering others.

You obviously never had an experience like I did as a schoolboy (on a corridor train on a Saturday evening that was conveying some 'losing' football fans home) of having someone coming into 'my' compartment with a large knife and proceeding to slash the upholstery as a means of venting his frustration. I decided not to protest.

The problem is that some people are perfectly happy to 'bother others'. I suppose that it's more therapeutic to slash the seats in a largely empty compartment than being forced to slash your own seat in a compartment full of other fans.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

You obviously never had an experience like I did as a schoolboy (on a corridor train on a Saturday evening that was conveying some 'losing' football fans home) of having someone coming into 'my' compartment with a large knife and proceeding to slash the upholstery as a means of venting his frustration. I decided not to protest.

The problem is that some people are perfectly happy to 'bother others'. I suppose that it's more therapeutic to slash the seats in a largely empty compartment than being forced to slash your own seat in a compartment full of other fans.

There are worse ways that people could "slash" the seats... especially in a full-width compartment with no access to toilets!

 

[tomuk]

The new R211 subway cars for New York have four sets of doors per car and are 63 inches wide meaning a third of each carriage is made up of doors. Some of the new stock for the Singapore MRT have five sets of doors per car.

 

[AM9]

I think those calling for a return to compartments with a side corridor are letting nostalgia cloud their judgement. I can remember the clearly. On a virtually empty train, it was fine, getting a private 6 or 8 seater room to your self, (as long as the view that wasn't spoilt by the corridor didn't wasn't the one that you wanted. As soon as another passenger came in, the whole atmosphere changed. On busier trains the compartments became very 'cliquey' where anybody new was regarded as an intruder in 'their' personal space.
The compartments could become very stuffy, especially in winter and even on quite long journeys, not everybody would remove over clothes and put them on overhead racks.
Then there's the issue with a side corridor, even on mainland European stock, getting even quite modest luggage from platform to seating could be difficult, in the constrained space of the floor level tumblehome profile, anything wheeled would be a cumbersome liability.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Perhaps I’m missing something but where would the pram actually fit, once it had been put into one of the mini-compartments (presumably with face-to-face transverse seating)?

I'm assuming this train made up of compartment stock will have facilities for prams and luggage not just compartments ?