Court summons, no option to pay fine or out of court settlement?

[james2906]

Hi all, new here.

2 months ago was court with a ticket from Stratford to St Pancras international while I had actually travelled from Ashford to St Pancras. I admitted to missing a stop and had all my details put down at the time, was not given the option of paying any fine at that time. The amount I owed was £44 which I would have been happy to cover + any additional costs on top.

Fast forward 2 weeks I get a letter from South-eastern which I fill out and fully admit to the incident, apologize for it and state how it was a extremely regrettable incident and wont happen again, happy to pay the fine for it.

Have just received a court summons letter with no contact information for South Eastern, just to contact the Clerk. This is also asking me to attend court in 14 days time, which I will almost certainly not be able to make

I am not really sure what to do here as the amount "dodged" was £44, I was given no chance of paying a fine, or any chance of an out of court settlement.

I would really appreciate any advice on how to advance this matter.

If any more specific details are needed, happy to post them also.

Also want to note this is the first time I have been court/issued a fine ever

Thanks

 

[skyhigh]

I am not really sure what to do here as the amount "dodged" was £44, I was given no chance of paying a fine, or any chance of an out of court settlement.

Ultimately Southeastern are able to prosecute without offering a settlement, there is no entitlement to one. It may be the case they proceeded to prosecution as they didn't receive the reply you sent for some reason - so you could try writing/emailing or phoning them again as a last chance to try and resolve this with a settlement.

But if they refuse to settle you will really have little option other than to attend court (and from what you've said, plead guilty). You will be convicted of a criminal offence but at least if you plead Guilty you will get a reduction in your court fine.

 

[6Gman]

They are not obliged to offer an out of court settlement and have decided to pursue a prosecution.

The only thing I can suggest is writing again to the address used for your original letter asking again for an out of court settlement but it doesn't sound hopeful.

As to the court case you will presumably have to plead guilty, since you've admitted the offence and I don't believe there is any requirement to attend.

 

[Starmill]

There may be an opportunity for you to offer to settle with the prosecutor on the day when you attend the Court. There also may not be, or they may choose not to speak to you about it, and you'll have to plead guilty.

 

[furlong]

You might like to seek professional legal advice on this one for an opinion as to whether or not it makes sense to plead not guilty on the basis that having paid to travel to St. Pancras you didn't travel at all beyond that station without paying. The key words that need to be interpreted here are 'beyond' and 'distance'. If you didn't have a ticket between Ashford and Stratford, I think it might be stretching the law too far to claim that that is 'beyond' the 'distance' you had paid for, namely Stratford to St. Pancras. Seek professional advice if you can. (They allege the offence occurred "at" St. Pancras. The statement of facts omits the crucial information that your ticket covered the second part of the journey rather than the first part, but I'd suggest even without being given that, this is inconsistent as the offence has to occur part-way through a journey not at its end.)

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

It's probably worth contacting Southeastern's Prosecution Department to check they received your reply to their letter. My guess is they maybe didn't, unless you said something in your reply that has clearly offended them, or you have come to their attention before for a railway ticketing matter.

 

[island]

Hi all, new here.

2 months ago was court with a ticket from Stratford to St Pancras international while I had actually travelled from Ashford to St Pancras.

This is a common occurrence on Southeastern using e-tickets from Stratford Int. The ticket gates will flag up these tickets so they can be checked to see if they were scanned to enter Stratford Int, and if not, the passenger can be questioned about how they got there.

I admitted to missing a stop and had all my details put down at the time, was not given the option of paying any fine at that time. The amount I owed was £44 which I would have been happy to cover + any additional costs on top.

Fast forward 2 weeks I get a letter from South-eastern which I fill out and fully admit to the incident, apologize for it and state how it was a extremely regrettable incident and wont happen again, happy to pay the fine for it.

How did you send this response? Do you have proof of delivery?

Have just received a court summons letter with no contact information for South Eastern, just to contact the Clerk. This is also asking me to attend court in 14 days time, which I will almost certainly not be able to make

I do need to be clear that the letter is not asking you to attend court, it is ordering you. You don't get the excuse of "I can't make it".

I am not really sure what to do here as the amount "dodged" was £44, I was given no chance of paying a fine,

A fine can only be issued by a court. If you want to pay a fine, you'll have the chance to pay it within 28 days after the court case. The usual fine Bexley court issued for this offence comes to £810.90 all in, reduced to £605.50 if you plead guilty. If you are on benefits or a low earner and supply evidence of this to the court then it may be lower.

or any chance of an out of court settlement.

Southeastern aren't obliged to offer you an out of court settlement, though they usually do, which suggests to me that either your response to their letter hasn't been received, or you said something in it that makes them not want to give you a chance.

I would really appreciate any advice on how to advance this matter.

You need to urgently contact the Southeastern prosecutions office by phone or email to establish whether they received your response. If you cannot get it sorted you must come to court on the day of your hearing and talk to the prosecutors. They are usually willing to entertain requests to settle and will ask the court to put the case back a few weeks whilst you do that.

If any more specific details are needed, happy to post them also.

I think we're good for now.

Also want to note this is the first time I have been court/issued a fine ever

That will potentially go in your favour if there is a disputed trial in court.

You might like to seek professional legal advice on this one for an opinion as to whether or not it makes sense to plead not guilty on the basis that having paid to travel to St. Pancras you didn't travel at all beyond that station without paying. The key words that need to be interpreted here are 'beyond' and 'distance'. If you didn't have a ticket between Ashford and Stratford, I think it might be stretching the law too far to claim that that is 'beyond' the 'distance' you had paid for, namely Stratford to St. Pancras. Seek professional advice if you can. (They allege the offence occurred "at" St. Pancras. The statement of facts omits the crucial information that your ticket covered the second part of the journey rather than the first part, but I'd suggest even without being given that, this is inconsistent as the offence has to occur part-way through a journey not at its end.)

This is a valid consideration, but I suspect the cost of said legal advice and representation would be in excess of the amount the OP would need to pay, even if convicted after trial. If the OP is cash-rich and desperate to avoid a criminal record, it might be worth considering.

Given that there is no dispute around the facts of the case or confusion about what the OP has done wrong, the magistrates might well invite and grant an application under CPR part 7 from the prosecutors to substitute the offence of travelling on a train without having previously paid his fare and with intent to avoid payment hereof, contrary to section 5 (3) (a) of the Regulation of Railways Act.

 

[SteveM70]

@james2906 is this the first time you’ve come to South Eastern’s attention for any sort of ticketing irregularity?

 

[island]

@james2906 is this the first time you’ve come to South Eastern’s attention for any sort of ticketing irregularity?

As per the OP:

Also want to note this is the first time I have been court/issued a fine ever

 

[SteveM70]

As per the OP:

Sorry, I asked the wrong question.

Should have been “is this the first time you’ve done this or anything like it?” rather than the first time you’ve been court (sic)

What I’m getting at is if South Eastern have looked at the OP’s purchase history, will they have found other “interesting” transactions

 

[Haywain]

Fast forward 2 weeks I get a letter from South-eastern which I fill out and fully admit to the incident, apologize for it and state how it was a extremely regrettable incident and wont happen again, happy to pay the fine for it.

Are you able to post a copy of your response?

 

[AlterEgo]

Have just received a court summons letter with no contact information for South Eastern, just to contact the Clerk. This is also asking me to attend court in 14 days time, which I will almost certainly not be able to make

Just to reiterate @island’s point. You are summoned to court. You are ordered to go. You must go. You are accused of a criminal offence. They are not asking you.

As others have said it is probable your response was lost. Did you send your response signed for/special delivery?