Cross country from Nuneaton to Leicester

[suzanneparis]

Last week I travelled on this route and there was only a two carriage train which was completely full and had standing room only, which was also very full.

Is there a reason why they don't run longer trains?

Thanks for any information.

 

[dk1]

Last week I travelled on this route and there was only a two carriage train which was completely full and had standing room only, which was also very full.

Is there a reason why they don't run longer trains?

Thanks for any information.

It’s been that way since 2007 when XC became what it is now after the Central Trains split. Only upgrade since has been the transfer in of around 6 centre cars to bolster some of the remaining 2-cars. I’ve often thought Leicester-Birmingham local workings should be given to WMR.

 

[paulmch]

The route is crying out for more capacity per train, but also more trains overall. In the evenings the last three trains from Birmingham are the 2022, 2052 and 2222 - even just running a 2122 and/or 2152 would make a big difference.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Quite simply, there's nothing else available.

As aluded to above, there were plans long ago now, to take the Turbostar routes and put them into the West Midlands/ East Midlands franchises, as part of a larger CrossCountry reshaping exercise, but it came to nothing.

It wouldn't have really solved the rolling stock issue either.

There will be lots of spare Class 222 available in the next year or so, it's possible that this could assist either directly or through a cascade elsewhere.

Open Access Operators are very keen though, and will snap up as many as they can get, if the price is right.

 

[Topological]

One possibility would be giving Cardiff to Birmingham to TfW. TfW already operate to Cheltenham and have services into Birmingham from the Shrewsbury direction.

The 170s saved for CrossCountry could then strengthen Birmingham to Nottingham/Leicester.

 

[XCTurbostar]

There will be lots of spare Class 222 available in the next year or so, it's possible that this could assist either directly or through a cascade elsewhere.

As you alluded to, it will need to be a cascade allowing more 170s on this route since the LEI-BHM and SSD-BHM are diagramed interchangeably and Voyagers Series 22x are currently not permitted at SSD.

 

[DarloRich]

Last week I travelled on this route and there was only a two carriage train which was completely full and had standing room only, which was also very full.

Is there a reason why they don't run longer trains?

Thanks for any information.

because XC are twisted evil genii who revel in making life as uncomfortable for passengers as possible.

That or the result of DfT decisions to allocate XC inappropriate stock levels or lengths to allow them to run a sensible service coming home to roost and/or DfT declining any applications for funding to secure new, longer or better trains.

( but that doesn't ONLY apply to this segment of the XC service. It applies to the service as a whole.)

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

As you alluded to, it will need to be a cascade allowing more 170s on this route since the LEI-BHM and SSD-BHM are diagramed interchangeably and Voyagers Series 22x are currently not permitted at SSD.

More likely that they'd just cull the service at Cambridge in the future, if it came to that.

CrossCountry as a franchise / standalone TOC is likely to disappear fairly early on in the GBR new world.

 

[duffield]

Last week I travelled on this route and there was only a two carriage train which was completely full and had standing room only, which was also very full.

Is there a reason why they don't run longer trains?

Thanks for any information.

FWIW, two coaches is unusual, it's mostly three. Today 32 out of 34 services are intended to be three coaches.
But yes, it does get "cosy" on this section, I've sat in the luggage space before between Nuneaton and Leicester.

Last time, it was full and standing, and one guy had an entire 4-seat bay rammed with his luggage.

 

[suzanneparis]

Many thanks for all of your replies. Very interesting. I was going to write to my MP but I don't suppose it will have any immediate impact on the situation.
Kind regards

 

[dk1]

Many thanks for all of your replies. Very interesting. I was going to write to my MP but I don't suppose it will have any immediate impact on the situation.
Kind regards

It will help but I think we are several years away from any significant change.

 

[XCTurbostar]

The biggest impact would be from the Midlands Rail Link since this would double the NUN to LEI capacity but this seems to have gone cold.

 

[TheBigD]

There has been a 2 car vice 3 car 170 on various Stansted-Birmingham runs on and off for the last couple of weeks.

 

[Spaceship323]

Peak hour there are 2 units together usually making 6 cars, the extra just sits on Leicester depot all day waiting for the evening run back to Birmigham

Edit ~ Looking at Real Time Trains I see that hasn't happened this week so XC must be temporarily short of rolling stock

 

[XCTurbostar]

Peak hour there are 2 units together usually making 6 cars, the extra just sits on Leicester depot all day waiting for the evening run back to Birmigham

Edit ~ Looking at Real Time Trains I see that hasn't happened this week so XC must be temporarily short of rolling stock

Pre-COVID 1P04 and 1P24 were the only 4 and 5 car services respectfully. Now there are none timed for weekdays and only 1P00 and 1P34 on a Sat/Sun.

 

[rower40]

TPR (Timetable Planning Rules) for Stansted Airport platform 2 (the one in the open air, so where diesels can go) shows "97m in operational use" in the Platform Lengths chapter. This means that XC can run 4-car class 170s there (although they rarely did so whenever I've needed to use the line from Cambridge to Leicester), but nothing larger.

 

[Spaceship323]

I live in Nuneaton and travel to Leicester every week, I've watched them couple up 2 units on the 1718 (1P24) at Leicester loads of times

 

[Stampy]

The route is crying out for more capacity per train, but also more trains overall. In the evenings the last three trains from Birmingham are the 2022, 2052 and 2222 - even just running a 2122 and/or 2152 would make a big difference.

The 2022 is the LAST one that goes PAST Leicester....

Many's a time I've had to race across either New Street or Leicester Station to catch this train back to Peterborough

As as other posters have said, it's a 2-car train that near-enough "half-empties" at Leicester.

You've got NO chance if you want to see a show in either Leicester or Birmingham of getting back home afterwards - unless you DRIVE!!!

 

[OhNoAPacer]

@Loppylugs has the correct answer.
You turn to sweep us up.

because XC are twisted evil genii who revel in making life as uncomfortable for passengers as possible.

That or the result of DfT decisions to allocate XC inappropriate stock levels or lengths to allow them to run a sensible service coming home to roost and/or DfT declining any applications for funding to secure new, longer or better trains.

Of course these are not mutually exclusive.


This is not, entirely, a serious post but my emoticon button isn't working for some reason.

 

[DannyMich2018]

The Birmingham-Nuneaton-Leicester route (and onwards towards Peterborough) has got busier for many years. Saturday services are busy all day long with the last departure from Birmingham on Saturday been very busy, it's not unknown for some Birmingham bound Saturday morning services to leave people behind at Hinckley and Nuneaton-Weekends in December can be horrendously crowded too. Fortunately the 7 2 -car 170s don't have many booked services on this route but even 3 car 170 struggle. The tight turnaround at Birmingham doesn't give much buffer for helping late arrivals leave on time.

 

[Topological]

One change that has happened recently is that Nuneaton has become a connection point for Manchester to Leicester journeys. It may not be a big flow, but with small trains it does not take much to bring the loadings up.

Given the issues with TPE, and regular busyness of the EMR Liverpool trains, it would not surprise me if some have switched to the Nuneaton connection.

Not to stray into speculative, but it often struck me that Nuneaton could be a very useful connection point for more destinations. Perhaps thankfully from a CrossCountry loading perspective there are not many options North and West.

 

[sharpley]

Anyone know why Leicester to Hinckley advance fares are so cheap? You can regularly get same day advance adult singles from between £2.20 to £2.60. Very good for a 15 mile 20 minute rail journey, can give the frequent bus services between Leicester and Hinckley a run for their money. As a comparison on the same route Leicester to Melton Mowbray you wont find for less than £7 for the same journey (2 towns a similar distance either side of Leicester, same route and TOC). Hinckley is mainly served by the Brum-Leicester service whilst Melton is on the Brum-Leicester-Stansted service.

Not complaining about it, just intrigued how its so cheap to Hinckley from Leicester.

 

[XCTurbostar]

..it's not unknown for some Birmingham bound Saturday morning services to leave people behind at Hinckley..

This is not helped by the non-stopping Stansteds which even if the stopper is cancelled, control refuses to put additional stops on.

 

[Wyrleybart]

The Birmingham-Nuneaton-Leicester route (and onwards towards Peterborough) has got busier for many years. Saturday services are busy all day long with the last departure from Birmingham on Saturday been very busy, it's not unknown for some Birmingham bound Saturday morning services to leave people behind at Hinckley and Nuneaton-Weekends in December can be horrendously crowded too. Fortunately the 7 2 -car 170s don't have many booked services on this route but even 3 car 170 struggle. The tight turnaround at Birmingham doesn't give much buffer for helping late arrivals leave on time.

And Birmingham Christmas market is starting soon !!!
Expect many more folk to be left behind as the public stupid in Birmingham city centre !!!

 

[suzanneparis]

Sorry everyone. My title wasn't clear enough. I was trying to ask if it was normal to have to stand and why.

 

[paulmch]

Sorry everyone. My title wasn't clear enough. I was trying to ask if it was normal to have to stand and why.

Depending on the time of day it's certainly not unusual, for a number of reasons:

• A relatively infrequent service for two cities the size of Leicester and Birmingham
• Trains that only have 3 carriages (around 200 seats), and occasionally only 2 carriages (just over 100 seats) that really struggle to soak up demand at busy times of the day or during disruption
• Nuneaton has become a more significant interchange since the last West Coast Mainline timetable change
• During times of disruption on the WCML, Nuneaton is a workaround for people travelling to the West Midlands. An 11-coach Pendolino's worth of passengers trying to squeeze onto a 3-car 170 is impossible without a lot of very packed standing.

 

[318 Ayrline]

Quite simply, there's nothing else available.

As aluded to above, there were plans long ago now, to take the Turbostar routes and put them into the West Midlands/ East Midlands franchises, as part of a larger CrossCountry reshaping exercise, but it came to nothing.

It wouldn't have really solved the rolling stock issue either.

There will be lots of spare Class 222 available in the next year or so, it's possible that this could assist either directly or through a cascade elsewhere.

Open Access Operators are very keen though, and will snap up as many as they can get, if the price is right.

There are loads of spare units around the country but unfortunately the roscos are hiding them

Sadly despite the mega promises that the arena would have aregular useful service for events Lindon Midland failed to secure the rolling stock sadly

 

[Spaceship323]

XC would probably like to have more seats but the people in charge of the railways e.g. the DfT won't give them the money. I've been travelling that route for 5 years now and to be honest it's very rare to get a 2 coach train so I guess you were just unlucky this week

 

[Stampy]

Sorry everyone. My title wasn't clear enough. I was trying to ask if it was normal to have to stand and why.

If you're traveling from EAST of Leicester towards Birmingham, then YES.....
It sometimes eases at Leicester if the Leicester Tigers Rugby are at home - but generally STANDING from Peterborough/Stamford all the way to Brum (In my travels, anyway)

 

[Efini92]

One possibility would be giving Cardiff to Birmingham to TfW. TfW already operate to Cheltenham and have services into Birmingham from the Shrewsbury direction.

The 170s saved for CrossCountry could then strengthen Birmingham to Nottingham/Leicester.

But where would TFW get the trains to run the route from?